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睡眠是我们日常生活中至关重要的一部分，但围绕睡眠存在着诸多误解。很多人认为，当头碰到枕头时，大脑就会在夜晚 “下线休息”。但实际上，事实并非如此。而且，如果你能立刻入睡，那很可能意味着你极度缺觉。

在这场关于睡眠的讨论中，专家们深入探讨了睡眠的重要性、常见误区、影响因素以及改善睡眠的方法，旨在为人们提供科学、实用的睡眠指导。

睡眠是健康的终极加速器。睡眠的质量和时长是预测寿命的最重要指标之一。充足且优质的睡眠对健康有着多方面的积极影响：

• 夜间睡眠时，血压会降至 24 小时中的最低点，这种自然的血压下降对醒来后维持健康的血压至关重要。
• 睡眠不足会导致情绪调节失调，还会扰乱维持健康食欲的能力。
• 当我们重视睡眠，将睡眠放在优先级列表中较高的位置时，很多积极的事情会随之而来，包括情绪稳定、良好的人际关系和高效的生产力。比如，在下午感到困倦时，小睡一会儿就是很好的恢复生产力的方法。

人们对睡眠缺乏适当的教育，不了解基于证据的睡眠原则。例如，很多人小时候可能听过母亲说，如果晚上睡不着，就躺在床上，总会睡着的。但实际上，对于失眠的人来说，正确的做法是离开床，去做一些放松的事情，积累所谓的 “睡眠压力”，等有睡意了再回到床上尝试入睡。一般来说，入睡时间应该在 15 分钟左右，如果超过这个时间，就应该打破这个循环，先离开床，等准备好了再尝试入睡。

瑞贝卡最初对医学的其他领域感兴趣，比如运动生理学、营养学等，广泛关注健康行为以及在西方社会如何促进健康行为（西方社会更倾向于治疗疾病）。这也是其进入研究生院的重要动力。

瑞贝卡在本科就读于康奈尔大学期间，参加了詹姆斯・莫斯博士的课程，从此对睡眠研究产生了浓厚的兴趣。詹姆斯・莫斯博士被誉为 “睡眠教授”，在 20 世纪 80 年代，为了对应 “能量早餐” 和 “能量午餐”，他创造了 “能量小睡” 这一术语，主张下午小睡以提高生产力。

瑞贝卡在住院医师和研究员培训期间，人们很少谈论睡眠。当时的情况是，即使感到疲惫，也要去上夜班，似乎睡眠的重要性被忽视了。

睡眠医学是一个非常令人兴奋的领域，人们对身体和大脑在睡眠中发生的事情的理解几乎每周都在进步，有很多令人着迷的新发现。

与医学的其他领域相比，睡眠是一个相对较新的领域。一些重要的发现在 40 到 45 年前的 70 年代末才出现。以前，人们不知道是什么影响了昼夜节律，也不知道蓝光光谱是影响昼夜节律的最强因素，还以为是行为模式帮助我们在典型的 24 小时内调整睡眠和清醒周期。直到最近，才有了很多关于睡眠与清醒生活各个领域之间联系的新发现。

成年人需要 7 到 9 小时的睡眠，才能达到最佳的健康状态、警觉性和幸福感，这不仅关乎当下和明天，也影响未来。睡眠的质量和时长是预测寿命的最重要指标之一，不仅包括寿命的长短，还包括生活质量。

这个范围是有道理的，因为在很大程度上，睡眠需求是由基因决定的。如果你父母都是短睡眠者（这里的短指大约 7 小时），那么你可能很幸运，只睡 7 小时就足够了。但也有很多人需要更长时间的睡眠，生理上硬性要求每晚都达到一定时长，如果你需要 9 小时，且父母都是长睡眠者，那么你可能就处于这个范围的较长一端。

找到自己在这个范围内的合适睡眠时长至关重要。如果你现在的睡眠时长远低于这个范围，比如每天只睡 5 到 6 小时，不要一下子大幅改变睡眠时长，因为睡眠与日常规律密切相关。

存在少眠基因的人：确实有说法称存在一些人因为基因变异而需要较少的睡眠，但这样的人很少见，而且往往是 “朋友的朋友” 之类的传闻中的人，他们声称自己只需睡 4 到 5 小时。

军人群体：军人似乎能在仅睡 4 到 5 小时的情况下工作，虽然这并不理想，但在现役中，有很多因素导致睡眠困难。比如，在不确定的环境中睡觉，周围可能存在威胁，这些都是导致睡眠困难的重要原因。当处于紧张、焦虑的状态，比如面临重大截止日期时，会给睡眠带来很多实实在在的障碍。此外，有时需要在半夜巡逻，这在很多方面类似于轮班工作，会极大地扰乱昼夜节律，因为睡眠归根结底是要让人感到平静、安全和舒适，而当这些条件不满足时，很难平静下来入睡。

睡眠是两个过程共同作用的结果。

可以想象成背着一个背包，早上醒来时，每过一个小时，就往背包里放一块砖，到一天结束时，你就会感到疲惫不堪。这就是 homeostasis 睡眠压力的概念，也就是困倦感。

人类在地球上经过数十万年的进化，适应了大约 24 小时的一天。从进化的角度来看，这有助于我们适应周围环境，在夜间睡眠时进行细胞修复、身体修复和再生，在清醒时，我们的祖先则会寻找食物、抵御捕食者。

身体并非以线性方式运作，不是清醒的时间越长表现就越好，而是生活有真正的节律，这就是所说的昼夜节律。“昼夜” 一词来自拉丁语，意思是 “大约一天”，指的是在大约 24 小时内起伏变化的过程。睡眠就是这样一种昼夜节律，支撑清醒或睡眠的基本能力的激素也在 24 小时周期内波动。

对这个周期来说，规律至关重要，比如每天在同一时间入睡、吃饭、锻炼，然后进入一个寒冷、黑暗的房间入睡。褪黑素在其中发挥着重要作用，当接近习惯性的入睡时间，大脑会分泌褪黑素。当太阳落山，回到卧室入睡，早上醒来后，褪黑素停止分泌，我们就能开始一天的生活。这两个过程相互作用，决定了我们的睡眠能力。

昼夜节律是一个敏感的系统。比如，很多人周末睡懒觉，这从昼夜节律的角度来看是不利的。将起床时间推迟超过一小时，会给昼夜节律系统传递一种信息，仿佛你登上了飞机，飞到了一个新的时区。这会导致第二天晚上身体与你作对，到了平时的入睡时间，你会失眠，还会因为有精力而熬夜看电影。很多人都深受其害，以为睡懒觉是好事，可以弥补缺失的睡眠。但实际上，最多比平时多睡 30 到 45 分钟是可以的，超过这个时间，就可能面临 “社会时差” 的风险，即由于给身体传递了需要调整的生理信号，而人为地产生类似时差的症状，这通常是因为社交原因熬夜，比如出去看电影、和爱人共度时光等，然后第二天晚起，接下来的晚上可能会出现失眠症状。

轮班工作：像医学实习生这样的群体，很多人从事轮班工作，也是医学教育的一部分。但研究表明，这种日程安排和睡眠中断是导致医疗失误的重要因素。轮班工作是最难的工作类型之一，因为在一周内，昼夜节律无法适应任何正常的模式。对于轮班工作者，最好的建议是在轮班时间表较短的情况下，找到可预测的轮班模式。社会的运转离不开轮班工作者，让人们能 24 小时获得食物、客户服务热线以及医疗帮助等，但他们的睡眠确实受到了很大影响。不幸的是，研究已经确定，由于昼夜节律失调的风险，以及身体难以修复和获得良好睡眠，轮班工作已被列为可能的致癌物。所以，应尽快摆脱这种工作安排，进入至少有固定班次的工作，理想情况下，在可能的情况下，选择与周围昼夜明暗模式相符的班次。

睡眠债务的偿还：对于那些长期睡眠不足的人，比如每晚只睡 4 到 5 小时，是否能偿还睡眠债务呢？答案是可以的，那就是抓住一切可能的时间补觉，比如在周末多睡一会儿，或者小睡。如果前一晚没睡好，短时间的小睡会有帮助；如果有时间，在周末下午睡 90 分钟也是很好的弥补方式。

人们最大的误解之一是，当头碰到枕头时，大脑在夜晚就会 “下线休息”，身体也处于一种单一的睡眠状态。但事实并非如此，在夜间睡眠过程中，身体和大脑有很多丰富多样的活动，并且在不同阶段会发生变化。

睡眠的特点是电生理活动模式，每个阶段的模式都有所不同。在典型的夜间睡眠中，可以区分快速眼动睡眠和非快速眼动睡眠。

• 快速眼动睡眠：顾名思义，在这个阶段，眼睛会来回快速移动，大脑活动非常活跃，甚至不亚于清醒时。这被称为 “矛盾睡眠”，因为大脑活动频繁，而身体活动却很少，在快速眼动睡眠期间，身体基本上是不动的。
• 非快速眼动睡眠：可以分为不同的阶段。在入睡初期，进入较浅的睡眠阶段，脑电波会减慢，振幅增大，频率降低。第一阶段睡眠是清醒和睡眠之间的过渡阶段，然后逐渐进入第二阶段睡眠，第三阶段是夜间最深的睡眠阶段，脑电波的峰谷之间距离很长，显示出深度睡眠的状态。在这个阶段，肌肉会得到很多修复。

在健康的睡眠者中，大约 20 分钟后，会开始出现快速眼动睡眠的迹象。在整个夜晚会多次在这些不同阶段之间循环。健康睡眠者在夜晚的前半段深度睡眠较多，后半段快速眼动睡眠较多。当人们每晚只睡 3、4 或 5 小时，可能感觉还不错，但实际上会影响认知能力，因为快速眼动睡眠对认知有很多好处，比如记忆巩固等，而这个阶段主要在醒来之前。

睡眠测量的黄金标准是多导睡眠图（polyomnography），通过连接电极，可以测量脑电波、呼吸努力以及其他很多指标，如身体运动等。

现在睡眠追踪器的发展让人们能了解睡眠的定量部分，比如睡了多久、入睡花了多长时间、是否醒来、深度睡眠或快速眼动睡眠的时长等，这些信息在 5 到 10 年前普通消费者是无法获得的。

但定量部分最好与睡眠的定性评估相结合，简单地问自己早上感觉如何，是疲惫还是恢复了精力，如果感觉疲惫，可能就需要增加睡眠时间。

睡眠时长需求在人的一生中会有起伏变化。婴儿几乎需要全天睡觉，随着儿童长大，需要的睡眠会少一点。到了学龄期，儿童需要 6 到 12 小时的睡眠，但存在很多个体差异，有些孩子在这个范围的低端就能表现很好，有些则需要更高的时长。

可以通过 “N=1 实验” 来判断孩子的睡眠需求，即观察孩子睡 8 小时后，早上是否精神饱满，下午在车里是否会睡着，如果会，可能就是睡眠不足，接下来的晚上可以尝试稍微提前入睡时间和睡前流程。

小孩子对光线非常敏感，所以要确保他们有一个适合睡眠的环境，这并不需要花费很多钱，比如在买遮光帘。孩子和所有人一样，走进房间时应该感到舒适，有能让他们感到安慰的元素，比如最喜欢的毛绒玩具、安抚物以及能让他们感到平静和安全的书。

确定孩子的最佳入睡时间需要不断尝试，因为每个人在很大程度上都有基因决定的昼夜节律类型，即每个人在 24 小时内对清醒或睡眠的个人偏好。可以通过 “什么时候工作效率最高” 这个问题来判断自己属于哪种类型。

当旅行时间较长，且跨越 3 个或更多时区时，就需要考虑调整睡眠来应对时差。在旅行前一周，根据目的地的时区，每天将入睡和醒来时间向新时区的方向调整 15 分钟，同时调整用餐时间。

如果乘坐红眼航班，尽量避免机上食物。如果可以选择，白天飞行是理想的，到达新目的地后，按照当地时间生活、吃饭和睡觉，要意识到睡眠可能不会很理想，可能会失眠，半夜 2、3 点醒来，这时候要保持良好的心态，做一些能让人困倦的事情，比如看书、做温和的瑜伽姿势。

褪黑素最适合用于旅行和对抗时差，药用级别的褪黑素很重要，因为研究发现非药用级别的褪黑素补剂实际含量与标签说明可能相差高达 300%。而且并非剂量越多越好，500 微克或 1 到 2 毫克就可以，不要超过这个量。此外，不要在睡前才服用，而应该在新环境中太阳落山后，即想入睡的前几个小时服用，以促进褪黑素的分泌，帮助适应新时区。

影响昼夜节律的两大因素是：

• 蓝光：蓝光是昼夜节律最强的影响因素。光线通过眼球进入，沿着视神经传到大脑中一个叫做视交叉上核的小区域，这是大脑中的昼夜节律中枢，然后会触发褪黑素的分泌（当眼睛检测不到蓝光时）。如果在睡前打开亮度很高的电脑屏幕，会给身体一个清醒的生理信号，因为眼球会接收来自屏幕的蓝光，认为是清醒的时间，这会干扰褪黑素的分泌。可以使用电脑的夜间模式，如果必须在睡前工作，这是个不错的选择，可以自动设置，随着当地太阳落山，屏幕会变得更温暖。
• 用餐时间：太晚进食会扰乱昼夜节律系统，可能导致当晚难以入睡，也无法获得高质量的睡眠。

此外，荧光灯也含有蓝光，光污染无处不在。卧室里最好使用睡眠友好的灯泡，比如红色或橙色等暖光灯泡，如果睡前阅读，可以用这样的灯。早上醒来后，尽可能到户外接触自然的蓝光，这有助于调整内部的昼夜节律。

长期以来，人们不建议在晚上锻炼，但现在研究表明，总体而言，锻炼是良好睡眠质量的最重要预测因素之一，锻炼的时间相对不那么重要。有几项研究表明，比如在睡前进行非常剧烈的高强度锻炼是不明智的，会对睡眠产生一些负面影响。但总的来说，只要能安排锻炼，不用太担心锻炼的时间。

这也与昼夜节律偏好有关，真正的早起者可能喜欢在早上锻炼，而夜猫子可能喜欢在下班后锻炼。社会上很多方面更偏爱早起的人，比如俗语 “早起的鸟儿有虫吃”，但对于真正的夜猫子来说，早上 9 点起床都很有压力，更不用说通勤去做朝九晚五的工作了。理想的工作场所应该以工作质量作为安排日程的最大预测因素，而不是考勤时间，雇主应该考虑如何让员工获得足够的睡眠，以发挥最佳状态。

光线与新鲜空气：多呼吸新鲜空气，尤其是白天的新鲜空气，往往伴随着接触蓝光，对身体有益。可以通过一些方式将其融入日常生活，比如在城市里多走一个地铁站，把车停在离入口远一点的地方走 5 分钟，或者离开视频进行电话会议时到户外去。下午很多人会喝咖啡或含糖饮料来提神，其实如果真的很累，小睡一会儿，或者到户外走走，接触阳光，都能起到提神的作用，还不会有咖啡因带来的紧张感，也不会对当晚的睡眠产生不利影响。

小睡的好处：研究表明，短暂的小睡，甚至几秒钟、几分钟的睡眠，都能让人进入一种叫做 “催眠” 的状态，这是睡眠和清醒之间的过渡阶段，有助于提高创造力，让人能想出复杂问题的解决方案。理想的小睡时间是下午昼夜节律下降的时候，无论早起者还是夜猫子，下午都会经历一段警觉性下降的时期，这是因为已经清醒了很多小时，接收了很多信息，下午核心体温也会有小幅下降，很适合小睡。下午的感觉也是判断晚上是否睡够的一个很好的指标，如果下午感到疲惫，可能就是睡眠不足。20 分钟的小睡被认为是 “能量小睡”，短时间的小睡也被证明是有益的。

• 床单与床上用品：舒适的床单很重要，能让人在身体上感到舒适，有助于入睡。卧室应该是一个让人向往的地方，不一定非要买新床垫（床垫一般可以用 7 到 9 年，不宜过长），但可以升级枕头、床单等，不需要很贵，找到自己喜欢的就行。
• 床垫与睡眠姿势：关于床垫的软硬度，存在很多个体差异，有些人喜欢柔软的，有些人喜欢硬一点的，而且睡眠姿势也很重要。比如侧睡者和仰卧者对床垫的需求可能不同。
• 其他环境因素：空气质量与睡眠质量有很强的关联，如果空气质量差、闷热、有过敏原，会干扰睡眠，购买空气净化器有助于改善空气质量，还能提供一些背景噪音，减少外界干扰。

建立睡前流程：比如洗脸、使用精油、冥想（15 到 20 分钟）、使用耳塞和眼罩等，这些习惯流程能让人形成条件反射，知道这些行为之后就是睡眠。

避免睡前拖延：现在很多人白天忙碌，晚上终于有自己的时间，会拖延睡觉时间，比如看剧，这会影响睡眠。应该找到放松的方式，为睡眠做好准备。

常见睡眠障碍 ：

• 失眠：影响约 30% - 40% 的人口，表现为长期难以入睡（每晚超过 30 - 45 分钟）、难以维持睡眠（入睡后醒来且难以再次入睡）、早醒且无法再次入睡，通常还伴有白天疲惫的感觉。失眠患者走进卧室时，皮质醇水平会升高，这会干扰放松和准备入睡的能力。一线治疗方法是认知行为疗法（CBTI），在有条件的情况下优先采用；也可使用药物干预，然后逐渐过渡到行为疗法。
• 阻塞性睡眠呼吸暂停：表现为大声打鼾，甚至呼吸中断或暂停，这很危险。但幸运的是，这种疾病是可以治疗的，有多种治疗选择。如果出现相关症状，应咨询睡眠专家，治疗对生活质量、睡眠以及心脏健康都有显著改善作用。未经治疗的睡眠呼吸暂停患者，血压可能难以控制，还会引发多种其他问题。

睡眠障碍的筛查：有很多易于实施的问卷，对筛查睡眠障碍风险很敏感，比如 Epworth 嗜睡量表、失眠严重程度指数，还有柏林问卷、STOP - BANG 问卷等，即使不去睡眠实验室，也能大致了解自己是否有睡眠障碍风险。

1. 认为有些人只需少于 7 小时睡眠且状态良好：实际上，这样的人即使存在，也研究甚少。历史上有一些名人，如托马斯・爱迪生，声称自己每晚只睡 4 小时，但他在办公室有一张小床，以长时间小睡闻名，所以他每天实际睡眠时间可能接近 7 小时。充足且规律的睡眠能提高睡眠效率，可能让人总体需要的睡眠时间少一点。
2. 认为入睡快是睡眠好的标志：健康的睡眠者通常需要 15 - 20 分钟入睡，如果你能立刻入睡，很可能是极度缺觉，就像极度饥饿的人看到自助餐会立刻大量进食一样。
3. 认为按下闹钟按钮能获得更多睡眠：很多人设置多个闹钟，认为这样能多睡一会儿，但实际上并非如此。不如把闹钟设置在最晚需要起床的时间，然后下定决心起床，还可以把手机放在房间另一边，避免赖床。

在睡眠领域，新技术与睡眠的结合令人兴奋。研究者致力于设计干预措施，引导人们获得更好的睡眠，比如开发能提供个性化建议的虚拟助手，帮助人们理解和利用可穿戴设备收集的信息，以解决睡眠专家短缺的问题。

睡眠追踪的趋势也非常令人振奋，越来越多的依赖这些设备。2019 年的数据显示，三分之一的美国人使用某种可穿戴技术追踪睡眠，现在这个数字可能更高。未来，有望让这些设备更加准确、小巧、可扩展，甚至能检测出人们可能未察觉的睡眠障碍迹象，这些障碍可能会影响睡眠质量。

总之，睡眠对我们的健康和生活质量至关重要，了解睡眠的科学知识，摒弃误区，养成良好的睡眠习惯，对于改善睡眠、提升生活品质有着重要意义。

The Truth About Sleep: Myths, Tips, and Sleep Routine with Dr. Rebecca Robbins

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Edit:2025.08.13<markdown>

One of our biggest myths is that when

our head hits the pillow, our brain just

kind of checks out for the night. If

you're falling asleep right away, you're

probably starved for sleep.

Do you have tips or tricks? I mean, I

want to share mine that I think will

solve everybody's sleep problems. Number

one,

sleep is just the ultimate accelerator

of good health. The quality and quantity

of our sleep is one of the strongest

predictors of our longevity. You have

talked a lot in the past about cognitive

health, Alzheimer's, mortality. Are

there sleep biomarkers? The truth is

sleep is not going to be perfect every

night. But the key is getting back on

track towards those four components.

Sleep is a product of two processes. The

first is called the homeostatic sleep

drive. For the the risks of circadian

desynchrony, the difficulties for our

bodies to really repair and get good

sleep, shift work has been named a a

probable carcinogen. Do you have a

position on sleep medications?

The research that pits those two

treatments head-to-head, pharmacological

intervention and behavior change, those

two patients, sufferers of insomnia, and

we compare them over time, the

behavioral treatment wins out.

[Music]

Why should we sleep? Well, sleep is one

of the most important parts of a typical

24-hour day. But unfortunately so many

of us whether we choose on our own

valition to curtail sleep whether it's

watching Netflix staying up for another

hour to do another report or something a

professional obligation a personal

obligation or out of necessity if you're

working multiple jobs your time to sleep

is going to be crunched but sleep is one

of the most vitally important parts of

our typical 24-hour day. Over the course

of our sleep at night our blood pressure

drops to its lowest point in the 24-hour

day is just one example. And that

natural dipping of blood pressure is

vitally important for us to wake up and

maintain a healthy blood pressure. Our

emotional regulation gets out of sync.

Our ability to maintain a healthy

appetite is thrown off when we're not

getting enough sleep. But when we can

reverse that, when we can put sleep at

the forefront and higher on our to-do

list, higher on our priority list, so

many positive things fall in line. Our

emotions, our relationships, our

productivity. Um, so often I laugh.

People say, you know, what's the best

productivity hack in the afternoon when

I'm sleepy? I'm like, just take a nap.

It's so interesting that we we push back

so hard against the idea of a good

night's rest. But couple that with the

fact that in at least the United States,

we really don't have proper education

about sleep. We're really not informed

about evidence-based principles when it

comes to sleep. For instance, I don't

know if your mother ever told you this

growing up. We love your mother, but uh

my mom would always say, “If you're

struggling with to sleep at night, stay

in bed. You'll get some sleep. Stay in

bed.” But wrong. If you're experiencing

insomnia, we want you out of bed. We

want you to reset to go do something

relaxing and build up what we call sleep

pressure and get back into bed when

you're ready and give it a shot again.

It should take you about 15 minutes to

fall asleep and much longer than that.

We want to break the cycle. We want to

get you out and then trying again when

you're ready.

We do hear a lot about sleep now,

probably more than we ever have. How

long have you been in sleep science? I

admittedly was interested in other areas

of medicine. Earlier on in my career,

exercise physiology, nutrition,

nutritional sciences, um or or other

broadly really interested in health

behaviors and how to promote health

behaviors in a western society where we

are taught to treat diseases. Um so that

really was a big driver of my going to

graduate school and I just became amazed

by the research in sleep and I took a

class by um that was taught by Dr. James

Moss. We tragically just lost him. He

was um older and has had an amazing

career um but he was larger than life at

Cornell where I went to undergrad and he

was known as the sleep professor and he

coined the term power naps in the 1980s

in response to power breakfasts and

power lunches. He said, “Take a power

nap in the afternoon to boost your

productivity.” And he was just an

incredible guy. He taught psych 101 and

promoted awareness about sleep in the

context of this course. Definitely when

I was in my fellowship training and when

I was in my residency training, we don't

talk about sleep.

Mhm.

So, oh, you're tired. Too bad you're

going to work the night shift.

Sorry for you.

I was there. I did it for, you know, 5

years. Now it's your turn. Right.

Yeah. There seems to have been a turning

point in our understanding about sleep,

brain function, sleep metabolism that at

least for the general population as well

as medical providers,

there's been a turning point and I'm

curious is if you've seen that

from before to now and if you see us

still moving forward.

Sleep medicine is a really exciting

field. It seems as though we're

advancing our understanding of what

happens in the body and in the brain

almost every week. There are fascinating

exciting new discoveries and it it's a

really exciting field to be. It hasn't

always been as hot admittedly as it is

now. Um I think only recently have we

really collectively woken up to the

importance of sleep. Um and sleep is

also a relatively new field compared to

other areas of medicine. Some of our

seinal discoveries were in the late '7s

40 45 years ago. We didn't know what

contributed to our circadian rhythms. We

didn't know the importance of blue

spectrum light as the strongest input to

our circadian rhythms. We thought it was

behavioral patterns and that helped us

align our sleep and wake cycles in a

typical 24-hour day. A lot of our

discoveries have only recently taken

place. And it seems as though we're

uncovering new and fascinating insights.

Virtually every every week almost are

new exciting findings coming out about

the connection between sleep and any

number of areas of our waking lives.

curious as to

how much we actually should sleep

because there seems to be a wide range

and I also have heard that there is a

genetic mutation that some people need

less sleep. Have you heard this? And

they

of course and it's so funny because it

always seems to be someone who's not

it's not you personally or you know

someone you know often it's this person

who's a friend of a friend and they did

you know that they can sleep for four or

five hours but

our community the military community M.

Oh yes.

That the operators

they seem to function. I I know it's not

great, but they it it's almost as if

there is a natural pattern, maybe 4 to 5

hours of sleep. There are so many

aspects of active duty that makes sleep

difficult. You know, of course, you're

sleeping in an uncertain environment

with threats around you. And those are

two of the biggest culprits of sleep

difficulties. When you're in an

environment or you're kind of um you're

nervous, you're on edge. If you think

about maybe before a big deadline for

any of us, you get stressed and worried.

There are so many profound and very real

barriers to sleep in the military

population. If you think about active

duty and all the number of stressors

that are so real and so profound, they

of course take an enormous toll on

sleep. And then sometimes there are

patrols that you have to go on in the

middle of the night. And so in many ways

you might be on kind of a shift work

like schedule which can dramatically

disrupt your circadian rhythm because

sleep at the end of the day is all about

feeling at peace about feeling you know

at peace with your surroundings safe and

comfortable. And when those pieces

aren't there it's very difficult to calm

your mind and be able to drift off into

sleep. If you were to convince me that I

need to sleep what is the average

American sleep? Adults need somewhere

between seven and nine hours for optimal

health, alertness, well-being, and not,

you know, well-being today, tomorrow,

and into the future. The quality and

quantity of our sleep is one of the

strongest predictors of our longevity.

Not only how long we're going to live,

but the quality of those years. And that

sweet spot for sleep for adults is

somewhere between 7 and 9 hours. And

now, it's a range because you might

have, it's in large part genetically

determined. If you've had two parents

that are shorter sleepers, and I say

shorter meaning about 7 hours, you might

be lucky and be fine on 7 hours of

sleep. But there are many people who

have a little bit of a longer sleep

need, physiological hardwired sleep need

to meet that night in and night out. And

if that's 9 hours, and again, if you had

two parents who are longer sleepers, you

might be on that longer end of the

spectrum. Now, we recommend a range. And

finding where you are in that range is

vitally important. And if you're

listening, you might be far from that

range. And so, think about where you are

right now. If you're really getting five

or six hours of sleep, we don't want to

move in sweeping changes towards a new

sleep duration. Uh because

our sleep is all about routine. Sleep is

a product of two processes. The first is

called the homeostatic sleep drive. Now,

if you imagine having a backpack on and

you wake up in the morning and each

additional hour, I put another brick in

that backpack such that by the end of

the day, you are dragging. That's the

idea of homeostatic sleep pressure. It's

the feeling of sleepiness. But that's

not all. And anyone who's traveled

internationally to a new time zone, you

could have been traveling for 12, 14, 24

hours, be physically exhausted, but not

be able to sleep. And that's because the

second opposing or synergistic process

is the circadian rhythm. Now, humans

have evolved over hundreds of thousands

of years of life on Earth to an

approximately 24-hour day. Other planets

have different durations.

Haven't been there.

Yeah.

But on Earth, we have evolved to to

operating around on a 24-hour cycle.

Now, it serves us from an evolutionary

standpoint to match our surroundings,

have periods of time where we are off,

our cells are repairing, our body is

repairing and regenerating itself over

the course of our sleep at night. And

then when we're awake, our ancestors

were looking for food. We're defending

the village from predators. So, and it

serves us to not simply kind of operate

in a linear fashion. Our performance

increasing with each additional hour

awake, but instead there's a real rhythm

to our lives. And we refer to this as

our circadian rhythm because virtually

every cell in the body operates in this

circadian fashion. Circadian is Latin

for about a day, referring to processes

that eb and flow around an approximate

24-hour day. Our sleep is one such

circadian rhythm. And the hormones

underlying our fundamental ability to be

awake or be asleep also oscillate around

that 24-hour cycle. And the best thing

for that cycle is routine. So falling

asleep at the same time, eating your

meals at the same time, exercising

around the same time every day, and then

having a time where you enter a cold,

dark room ideally, and you fall asleep.

And the hormone melatonin plays a large

role in that. And that hormone melatonin

is secreted in the brain when we

approach our habitual bedtime. The sun

sets in our environment and we slip into

our bedroom and we fall asleep and we

wake up and the melatonin stops in the

morning and then we're able to go about

our day. But those two processes

interact and result in our fundamental

ability to sleep.

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bank. We are very much either in

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Mhm.

When we think about rhythm, in my mind,

it sounds very delicate. Is this

circadian rhythm disruption delicate or

does it take a lot for us to be able to

get off track

from a rhythm standpoint then affecting

sleep?

It really is a sensitive system and if

we for instance one of the most common

uh mistakes that a lot of people make is

sleeping in on the weekends and I think

we um are kind of enamored with this as

a society actually. Oh, the idea of

sleeping in or the British um you know,

oh lion. I think this you know it's

interesting almost every society has a

term for this and it's always cast in a

very positive light. So what that does

unfortunately from a circadian rhythm

standpoint is delaying your rising time

by more than an hour will start to give

your circadian system information that

you have hopped in an airplane and

you've flown to a new time zone and that

your so your body is then going to be

working actively against you the next

night because it thinks that you're

shifting to a later time zone. Your

regular bedtime is going to roll around

and you're going to experience insomnia

and you're going to stay awake and

you're going to watch that movie because

you have this burst of energy. So many

people in our society fall victim of

this because they, you know, think

sleeping in is a good thing. You know,

I'm going to do that. I'm going to catch

up on lost sleep. And up until a point,

if you maybe want to add 30 or 45

minutes to your your your wake up time,

that's fine. But really much longer than

that does put you in the kind of in the

risk area for what we refer to as social

jet lag where we self-impose jet lag

like symptoms because we've in essence

given our body our physiological cues

that we're trying to adjust and we're

kind of experiencing then jet lag

symptoms often for social reasons cuz we

often are staying up late to go out to a

movie to you know spend time with our

loved ones which are all wonderful

things but then resultingly we'll wake

up later in the next day and then maybe

suffer from some insomnia symptoms the

next night.

What about this idea that I'll take u my

husband as an example? He's a thirdyear

urology resident. Wasn't on call last

night but he finished at 1:00. All the

surgeries got pushed later in the day.

He was exhausted but he still had to get

up at 5:30 this morning. He'll go, he'll

do that now for the next 5 days.

Mhm.

At some point, as we just think about

our lives, is there a way to repay that

sleep debt? And if so, how does someone

do that?

Medical residents are some of the most

sleepd deprived in our society, but they

are being trained to go out into the

medical field and save our lives. You

know, in the case of your husband or

surgeons or, you know, do life-saving

treatments. Um, but so often our medical

professionals are trained in these

environments that are fraught with sleep

deprivation. And if you're a general

health health care provider and you've

come of age in the system, you know,

you're probably struggling with sleep

yourself if you were on a series of of

rotating night shifts. And that is a

huge risk factor for insomnia. In many

cases, we find patients who are

struggling with sleep difficulties. is

they go speak to their doctor and their

doctors are prescribing sleep

medications because they might be on

them themselves or they're struggling

and there is a time and place for sleep

medication but the front line for sleep

difficulties is according to the

American Academy of Sleep Medicine

behavior change.

So for example he wants to sleep he

wants to sleep in after that after

having four or five hours of sleep a

night would he then be able to recoup

that?

Well your husband is doing something

that is really challenging. It sounds

like it's rotating shift work, which is

the case for many medical residents, and

it's part of the fabric of our medical

education, but but my team has published

research in the New England Medical

Journal to show that those types of

schedules and sleep disruptions for

medical residents are a significant

predictor of medical errors. And so, we

really have to ask ourselves, you know,

how can we set our young people up, our,

you know, the people who are getting

their training, especially in the

medical field to for success, not only

for their health and their well-being,

but the health of their patients also.

And so what he's doing right now is

rotating shift work which is the most

difficult type of shift work because

your circadian rhythm can't align itself

uh with any pattern of normaly in a

typical week. So in the case of your

husband it is going to be making up for

lost sleep whenever and wherever he can.

And so happy to hear that.

Yes, please fully endorse this. Um

sleeping in and also making up for loss

sleep with naps. They're uh shorter nap

if he's you know he got a little bit of

sleep the night before. he's not, you

know, too much in the dangerous zone of,

you know, really falling asleep, being

just absolutely exhausted. And if he has

time for a longer nap, then a 90-minute

nap is wonderful in the afternoon, say

on a weekend if he's off to to make up

for lost sleep.

It's interesting in the way that on one

hand, you want a consistent sleepwake

cycle is what I'm hearing you say.

And that is almost separate if you

cannot have that. If you are someone who

does not have a consistent sleepwake

cycle,

you want to sleep. That would be an

indication to sleep in or an indication

to sleep when you can. Totally. And we

work with a lot of shift worker

populations, whether it's

truck drivers or medical professionals.

And in those situations, the best

recommendation is to try to find to look

at periods where you're maybe on a

rotating shift schedule is a shorter

term situation and moving into at least

patterns of shifts that are predictable.

That is the best case scenario because

our society is really powered by

individuals on shift schedules outside

the traditional 9 to5. It's how we have

24/7 access to food or customer service

hotlines or medical help and attention.

And so we owe our shift workers a debt

of gratitude in our society. Um but

their sleep really suffers. And

unfortunately we have determined that

for the the risks of circadian

desynchrony, the difficulties for our

bodies to really repair and get good

sleep, shift work has been named a

probable carcinogen. So really moving

off these schedules as as quickly as

possible and into a schedule at least of

consistent shifts or ideally shifts that

that emulate the pattern of light and

darkness around us where possible. I

would love to hear what happens to the

brain when we sleep.

One of our biggest myths is that when

our head hits the pillow, our brain just

kind of checks out for the night and our

body and we're in this monolithic state

of sleep. Wrong. There's so much rich

and diverse activity in the body and the

brain and it changes over the course of

our sleep at night. Sleep is

characterized by patterns of

electrofphysiological activity and each

of those are nuanced across sleep

stages. We distinguish um over the

course of a typical episode of sleep at

night between rapid eye movement sleep

and nonrapid eye movement sleep. Rapid

eye movement sleep is where as the name

suggests our eyes are darting back and

forth back and forth and there's a

tremendous amount of activity in the

brain as much if not more so than when

we're awake. It's fascinating and we

call it really and we call it

paradoxical sleep because there's so

much activity happening in the brain and

very little activity happening in the

body. You're essentially immobile during

rapid eye movement sleep. Other health

behaviors, you have to get on a

treadmill. You have to buy healthy food.

But sleep can be free and start tonight.

There are sleep disorders. There are

more than 80 differentially diagnosible

sleep disorders that are limiting many

millions of Americans from getting good

quality sleep. But once we can remove

barriers, occupational barriers,

personal barriers, cultivate healthy

sleep habits, we're able to make

significant gains, not only in sleep,

but in daytime success, which is what

we're all about. If I we were to welcome

you into our laboratory in Boston, we

would hook you up with electrodes. And

the gold standard of sleep measurement

is what we call polyomnography. So we

would be able to measure your brain

waves, your respiratory effort, and a

number of other things, bodily

movements, etc. And what we would see as

your brain starts to slowly enter some

of the lighter stages of sleep. You're

drifting off into sleep is the pens of

the electrodes start to slow and the

amplitude of your brain wave starts to

increase. The amplitudes being the space

between a peak and a trough of a brain

wave start to lengthen indicating that

you're starting to slow down the brain

activity. And then the frequency slows

and then in stage one sleep is kind of a

weigh station between the awake and the

asleep state. And then as you slowly

drift into stage two sleep and then

stage three is the deepest sleep of the

night. I think it's what we think of

stereotypically when we think of sleep

very long spaces between the peak and

trough of a brain wave. So very slow

very high amplitude brain waves

really looking and sounding like you're

asleep. Now during stage three deep

sleep is where we get a lot of the

benefits from the standpoint of muscular

regeneration. Then something fascinating

happens. After about 20 minutes in a

healthy sleeper, I will start to see

signs of rapid eye movement sleep. As

the name suggests, your eyes are darting

back and forth under your eyelids. And

that movement in your eyes is indicating

a rich amount of activity in your brain.

Your brain during rapid eye movement

sleep is as active, if not more so, than

the waking brain, which is fascinating.

And then we cycle in and out of those

different stages several times over the

course of the the night with two kind of

highle differences in the first half of

the night in a healthy sleeper will see

that period of time rich in deep sleep

and then the second half of the night we

see rich in rapid eye movement sleep. So

when people come to us and say h you

know I'm getting three or four hours of

sleep at night or five and I you know I

feel okay but you know I think I'm I'm

doing all right and you might feel okay

but you're virtually robbing yourself of

your potential because rapid eye

movement sleep is where we get so many

benefits cognitively from our sleep

memory consolidation etc. And that

period is predominating right before we

wake up. If we're getting 7 to 9 hours,

they REM sleep is the consolidation of

memory. These software updates, however

you want to call it, software, hardware

updates of the brain, do they happen in

other stages? Is it as bifurcated as it

sounds?

Well, if you think about it, that's kind

of a difficult study to do to really

isolate each unique stage. Um, but we do

see the more rapid eye movement sleep

you get, the more likely you are to

achieve insights. So if I teach you

something before you fall asleep and

then quiz you on it the next day, the

more rapid eye movement sleep you get,

the stronger those connections and the

better your performance the next day on

cognitive tests. The gold standard of

measurement of sleep is polyomnography.

But I do think that there's an important

qualitative piece to sleep that

sometimes we forget. And now the

development of sleep trackers gives us

such an amazing insight into the

quantitative component of our sleep. How

long did you sleep? How long did it take

you to fall asleep? Did you wake up? Did

you spend much time in deep sleep or

rapid eye movement sleep? This is

amazing information that a typical

consumer didn't have access to, you

know, five, you know, 10 years ago. Um,

but I think that the quantitative piece

is ideally coupled with a qualitative

evaluation of our sleep. Quite simply

asking yourself, how do I feel in the

morning?

Tired.

I feel restored. And then if that's the

answer, you know, truly, you know, we

need to add a little bit more time. And

I hope that you know you call me after

and you're like, “Rebecca, we did it. I

got more sleep. I feel great.”

How much sleep do children need?

So, our sleep duration need does eb and

flow across the lifespan. Very little

babies need virtually to be sleeping

almost all day long as you remember. And

then as children age, they need a little

bit less. And up until the kind of

school age um period or time of a of a

child's life, they need somewhere

between 6 and 12 hours of sleep. But

there are a lot of individual

differences. Some kids will do well on

that lower end of the spectrum and other

kids will do well on the higher end. And

this is where I love to think about N of

one experiments. What works for you for

your kid after a night of 8 hours of

sleep? Do you find that they are

brighteyed and bushy tailed as the

saying goes when they wake up? Or do you

find that they're dragging and maybe in

the car in the afternoon? Do they fall

asleep? Those would be signs that

they're just not getting quite enough.

and then maybe start that next night and

try to start the bedtime process a

little bit earlier and the bedtime

routine a little bit earlier. Do you

think there is a time that is

universally good for kids? And what do I

mean by this?

Meaning we talked a little bit about

this circadian rhythm which is this

24hour cycle here in Texas. The sun goes

down let's say six o'clock. Let's say

the sun goes down in Boston or New York.

I'm just making this up. At 8:00, does

the location dictate the time we should

begin to think about putting our

children to sleep? Because listen, mine

didn't come with a manual.

It would be so much easier, wouldn't it?

So much easier. But perhaps if at 6 p.m.

when the sun is going down, even though

it's not convenient, maybe that's the

time that we begin to wind them down. Do

you know what I'm saying in terms of

like what if we're kind of doing it

wrong? It's not our children. They can't

regulate. They don't. My kid,

she'll want to stay up and read princess

books and literally one f like one eye

is falling asleep, you know.

Well, I love that. I love it. Sounds

like a great bedtime routine, but young

kids are very susceptible to light is

one thing to keep in mind. So, make sure

and this does not have to be expensive

for everyone listening. You can get

great blackout shades at Target for very

little, but do make sure your children

have sleep proofed environment. And an

environment, you just showed me your

daughter's bedroom. It's so amazing and

so cozy and so fabulous. Um, you want

children just like all of us to walk in

and feel soothed, have elements that

comfort them, their favorite stuffy,

their favorite lovey, and the book that

helps them also feel, you know, at peace

and safe. And that's going to change as

they grow, of course. But I think this

is where kind of back to the end of one

experiments, thinking about workshopping

your kids sleep until you find the sweet

spot and whether that's a 6 p.m. fall

asleep time or if that's a 9:00 p.m.

fall asleep time. And one of the the key

things is your children are young, but

what might be happening is all of us

have in large part genetically

predetermined preferences for

chronotypes. Now, this is a term that

refers to each of our personal

preference for being alert or asleep

within a 24-hour day. What is yours?

I am a very severe morning type. How

about you?

Same. Same, right?

I was like, this morning at 5 a.m.

I I was at the gym um by 7.

I love it. So, that is a kind of part of

this equation also. And your children,

those types might be presenting

themselves.

What are the other types? there is a

morning person.

We generally model it on a spectrum from

what we call morningness to eveningness.

And the biggest question, the best

question for figuring out where you are

within that spectrum is when do you do

your best work?

And if you would probably tell me first

thing in the morning, right? Would you

say or how would you answer that

question?

That in a month I can tell you that

because I don't sleep well. I have the

two little kids, you know, whether my

husband is on call or not. But I'm

hoping finish this episode and I'm going

to implement

same sleep wake cycle blackout shades.

I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to

do with my kids, but then I'm going to

call you and tell you

I can't wait and let's text along the

way until you get there. Because all of

this is really all about workshopping

and finding the sweet spot for you, for

your kids, for your your partner and

factoring in also your professional

obligations, your personal obligations,

and maybe also unwinding, you know,

yourself as a mom because we do stuff

for everyone around us, you know, all

day long as moms. The fascinating thing

that you said is there is a genetic

predetermination for amount and

chronotype.

How much movement can we make when

people have disregulated sleep from a

nutritional science standpoint? Again,

we see people all the time in in our

clinic that have abnormal lipids,

abnormal blood pressure, glucose

partially because they're either doing

shift work or

It's so interesting how this appears in

blood work, right?

Oh, what's that? Oh, that's uh my heart.

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You'll feel the difference. When do we

consider jet lag? Is it a 2hour

time difference, 3 hours? Would there be

a time that we say, “Okay, this is jet

lag.” When you're traveling, one of the

big questions is how long is the trip

going to be? If you're going to London

for a 24-hour trip and coming back, I

don't know that you have to adjust. I'd

say just rip off the band-aid, do your

best. Um, but if it's a longer period of

time and you want to really align, then

the best thing to do is in the week

before you travel, and it's really more

than three, maybe three time zones away.

But look, New York to to California can

be difficult. And if you have a big

important meeting, I'd say I'd say

consider these protocols. And the way

you do that is in the week leading up to

your trip, you think about where you're

traveling and you start to move your

fall asleep and wake up times in the

direction of that new time zone. Just 15

minutes. So if you're going to London,

push your bedtime, you know, just 15

minutes later, the first night in the

week before and then another 15 and then

another 15. So that'll get you just over

an hour

to California.

You are flying back. You're going to go

there. You're going to be there for a

week. Would you move up bedtime

from 8 to 8:15 or you move it the

opposite 7:45?

Well, when you're moving to the, you

know, backward to California, New York

to California, you're going to try to

push your schedules to be a little bit

later. So, I'd wear sunglasses in the

morning if you live in New York City and

you're going for a big work trip to

California. In the week beforehand,

you're trying to move small increments,

15 minutes in the direction of your new

time zone. And that's sleep times and

wake times, but it's also meals. So

maybe try to push your dinner to be a

little bit later. If you're taking a red

eye, for instance, from New York to

London, they're going to be serving you

food. I try to avoid them, but there are

situations where it's possible

red eye, I think of you. I'm just like,

oh, I know this isn't good. If you have

the luxury or the ability to to choose,

flying during the day is ideal and then

getting to your new destination. And

when you're there, do you know again

live, eat, and sleep on your new

destination time zone and realize that

sleep is not going to be perfect. I

don't have a cure for jet lag. I

wouldn't be a professor if I had a cure

for jet lag. Uh but so you might

experience some sleep difficulties. So

when you're on your new destination, you

land and maybe you experience some

insomnia. You wake up at 2 3:00 in the

morning. The protocol is the same. if we

experience that in the US in our home

time zone. Take it in stride. Try not to

beat yourself up. It's so easy to look

at the alarm clock and just be like,

“No, I'm up.” Um, but try to have I

think selft talk is actually really

important here. You know, no big deal.

I'm up, but it's okay. Of course, I'm

up. It makes sense. Do something that

will hopefully make you sleepy. Reading

a book,

gentle po uh yoga poses. The best use

case for melatonin is travel and

combating jet lag. So, uh, we do

recommend melatonin for that specific

use case. And taking it as you prepare

for your trip could be a good idea to

facilitate the transition of melatonin

in the direction of your new time zone

and when you land at your new

destination. Do keep a couple things in

mind as it comes to melatonin. Number

one, if you can find it, pharmaceutical

grade melatonin is critical. There have

been research studies that decompose

melatonin tablets that you can find that

are not regulated in the neutrautical

category in drugstores. And they found

that what's stated on the le the label

varies up to 300% than what's actually

in the supplement. So keep in mind that

purity varies widely. So pharmaceutical

grade will allow you to be confident

that what you're getting is pure and it

is not more the better. So look for

something that's

500 micro

calling you out.

So 500 micrograms or 1 to 2 millig but

not much more. And lastly, taken before

bedtime in advance. It's not right

before bedtime, but it's kind of when

sun is setting in your new environment

is when you should be taking melatonin a

couple hours before you want to be

falling asleep. I didn't realize it was

a few hours before. What you're saying

is you don't take melatonin right before

you, okay, I'm going to pop my melatonin

and go to sleep. You want to plan in

advance

and facilitate that internal secretion

of melatonin and adjustment to your new

time zone. I am only aware of one thing

that suppresses melatonin and that would

be light. Is there something else? Does

cortisol suppress melatonin? Are there

other do we know? The two things that

have the biggest impact on our circadian

rhythm are number one blue light, blue

daylight spectrum light and that is the

strongest what we call lifegiver giver

or zitgabber to our circadian system. So

light comes in through the eyeballs and

it travels along the optic cayazm to a

tiny region of the brain called the

super kaismatic nucleus and that's the

circadian rhythm home in the brain and

then that kind of fires the secretion of

melatonin. If the eyes detect absence of

blue daylight spectrum light. But if

bedtime approaches and you open up a

computer screen that has full

brightness, you're going to be giving

yourself a physiological cue to become

alert and awake because the eyeballs

will receive blue daylight spectrum

light from that screen and think it's

time to become alert and awake. And so

we're virtually shooting ourselves in

the foot when we use blue light

emmitting devices before bedtime.

There's a free software called Flux F.

UX um and it's free, widely available. I

I'm not affiliated with them, but I

personally use the technology. You do

amazing. And what that will do is it

will take away the blue from a computer

screen. So, if you must be working

before bedtime, do consider Flux. And

what's nice is you can set it up so that

it just goes on automatically. And as

the sun sets in your time on your laptop

or your tablet, then the screen will

become warmer. So, blue daylight

spectrum light is the strongest input to

our circadian system. and exposure to

blue light at inappropriate times will

disrupt the flow of melatonin. The

second is meal timing. A meal consumed

too late will disrupt the circadian

system and could make it difficult to

fall asleep that night and experience

consolidated restorative sleep.

That would make a lot of sense. And we

do see a lot of disregulated eating in

general. Mhm.

Um I think not only do we have a ton of

extra light exposure?

I don't know. Is fluorescent also blue?

I mean there's light pollution

everywhere.

Everywhere. Mhm. And it takes a lot of

effort and there I think there's also a

lot of confusion because there are a lot

of devices that say there are circadian

lights or they're you know sleepromoting

lights um which you know also are quite

bright and then maybe someone's using

that before bedtime. So, the best thing

for your bedroom is to go to a a

department store or a drugstore and uh

buy a sleep friendly light bulb and put

that into your your red light almost a

red

on your nightstand. Yes, it's a red

spectrum. Red um colors are measured in

temperature. So, it's a warm light. It's

reds. It's maybe oranges. Those are kind

of sleep inducing colors. And use that

in your bedroom if you're reading before

bedtime. And then if when you wake up in

the morning, do you need one of these

circadian lights? I don't know. But I

think that, you know, generally is if

you have one and love it, amazing. Um,

but getting outside into the natural

blue daylight spectrum light kind of as

soon as as possible is great for helping

our helping align our internal circadian

rhythms.

I do that with the kids uh every day. I

don't know if you think about Do you do

that too with your kids? I love that.

Right. As much as I can.

Okay. All right guys, let's go out.

Also, just having them out of the house

is sometimes the best.

Bye. agree with you there.

Do we know the impact of exercise and

the types of exercise on sleep quality?

This is a great question. For so long in

sleep, we would discourage exercise at

night. Now, I think the the research is

still emerging, but what we've found is

that generally if you're getting

exercise, that's the most important

predictor of good sleep quality. We we

really care less when you get it. There

have been a couple studies, one in

vigorous activity, for instance, doing a

very vigorous um, you know,

high-intensity workout before bedtime is

ill advised. Um, that does, you know,

have some negative impact on sleep. But

by and large, just making time for

exercise, I'm really not worried about

when you do it as long as you get it in.

And this question is related to our

circadian rhythm preference, our

chronoype. Because if you're a true

morning person, one of the other

questions I like to ask that's a great

predictor of where you are on the

spectrum from morningness to eveningness

is when you do your best work and when

you want to work out. A true morning

person will say h you know the morning

or an evening person will say I love to

get a workout in after work.

I don't think I've ever I handful of

times. Have you ever worked out after

work?

Oh my god. I It's very hard. I need a

lot of motivation.

I already know it's not going to happen.

I'm exhausted. Mhm.

I'd rather get up at 4

to train than I would rather train at

5:00 p.m.

I also think, you know, our poor evening

people in our society, I feel like I I

want to advocate for even true evening

types because there's so many things in

society that privilege a morning person.

Even, you know, our figures of speech,

the early bird gets the worm. Um, and

there's so many people, the true evening

types, the idea of a 900 a.m. wake up is

very stressful. And then think about a

commute to get to a nine-to-five office

job. For a young professional who's a

true evening type, it's really hard. I I

dream of a workplace where the quality

of our work will be the biggest

predictor of schedules. You know, if

you're doing enough, I don't really care

where you are or, you know, when you're

doing it as long as you're able to get

the sleep that you need. And that's the

be the biggest most important question

employers should be asking. How can we

set our employees up for success? I

think there's such a focus on you know

being at the office but you know the

hours aren't ideal for many many

millions of Americans.

Do you think that the environment

matters in the way that

if we are exposed all the time to blue

light under fluorescent light

do we wear we use flux in the evening?

Do we wear red light glasses, blue light

blocking glasses? Should we be spending

four hours or more of our time outside

to to combat this light?

This is a great question. I think

sometimes we can get too in our head

about things. And I think the bottom

line is more fresh air the better and

natural fresh air. What comes with that

often during the daytime at least is

exposure to blue daylight spectrum

light. Getting more fresh air, more

sunlight exposure over the course of the

day, the better. So think about ways to

build that into your daily routine so

you can kind of it behavioral economics

can you know fall into place and you can

just reap the benefits if that means you

know if you're like look I work in an

office building I don't have a lot of

opportunity to get outside one simple

way to get a little bit more fresh air

is to if you live in a city walk one

extra subway stop or park your car far

away from the entrance and walk for 5

minutes take a call that you can off

video and go outside so I'm really the

more the better and in the morning is

terri But sunlight exposure in the

afternoon is also great. So many people

are reaching for a coffee or, you know,

a sugary sweetened beverage in the

afternoon. And I get it. We all

experience a little bit of dip in

alertness. But if we combed that with

either a power nap if you're really

tired or um simply going outside and

walking around the block and getting

exposure to sunlight can have the

energizing benefits of caffeine without

the jitters or the adverse implications

for your sleep that night.

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[Music]

Stay hydrated, stay strong, and as

Gogggins would say, stay hard. The power

nap is interesting. Does it have to be

20 minutes? If you're tired enough,

could you fall asleep for 10?

Mhm. What's so interesting about naps is

maybe even less is is is beneficial and

in a little bit of a different way. Uh

research from MIT just revealed that

brief naps, I'm talking seconds, moments

of sleep over the course of the day

allow you a tiny bit of what we call

hypnogogia sleep. It's that weigh

station from sleep to wakefulness or the

other way. It's that weigh station

between wakefulness and sleep. And we're

finding the research is showing that

moments, seconds in hypnogoga sleep is

associated with bursts in creativity in

the ability to come up with solutions to

complex problems. And what I love about

that research is it really lowers the

stakes. So many people say, “H, I can't

nap. I see the research. I wish I could,

but I can't.” And what that says is

don't worry. If you can get a couple

minutes, you are in great shape to, you

know, crush the rest of your day. And it

doesn't matter. It doesn't matter when

you do it.

The ideal time for a nap is in the dip

in our circadian rhythm in the

afternoon, which we all experience.

Whether you're a true evening person or

a true morning person, we all simply

experience a dip in our alertness in the

afternoon. Why? Because we've been up

for, you know, so many hours so far in

the day. We've consumed a lot of

information. There's a small drop in our

core body temperature in the afternoon.

So, it's kind of the perfect storm for a

nap. And that's also a really good

litmus test for whether you're getting

enough sleep. How do you feel in the

afternoon? Are you exhausted? Are you

like, “Listen, I need something to get

me through.” That's a really good

barometer for whether you're getting

enough sleep at night.

20 minutes is considered a power nap.

So moments are have been shown to be

beneficial. And then what we call a

power nap is gen.

All right, guys. Just give me a second.

And my husband would do it. He he could

fall asleep right here for 2 minutes. I

love it. I love it. But he he needs a

lot more sleep. He will get it once he's

done with his residency.

Yes.

And he's doing such an amazing job. And

remember, these periods of life are

fortunately fortunately shortlived for

many of us.

The reality is most of us are not

getting enough sleep. And I don't want

anyone to feel bad as they're listening

to this going, “Gh, I wish I get more

sleep.” Is there a way to recover? And I

don't just mean in the short term,

the brain function, the executive

function,

um, you know, from years of lack of

sleep of doing all of the things, I

don't know, from being in high school.

All of the research is showing that

sleep, the quantity and quality of our

sleep at night is a significant

predictor of our health, our well-being

today, tomorrow, and well into the

future. But importantly, sleep is not

going to be perfect every night. And

that's because sleep is part of the

fabric of the human condition. And

stress is all around us, I think, now

more than ever. And if you've been

experiencing stress, you're you could

have done everything else right, but you

go into your bedroom and you slip into

in between the sheets and you toss and

turn. And it could be because of

something a co-orker said, um, or maybe

stress that you weren't managing over

the course of the day or some a negative

experience as you approach bedtime, you

know, a scary Netflix show. The list

goes on. But all of those don't watch

those.

Sometimes there are things that are out

of our control.

Do you have tips or tricks? I mean, I

want to share mine because I I have a

handful that I think will solve

everybody's sleep problems.

It doesn't include alcohol. Number one,

sheets. I know that sounds ridiculous,

but the sheets have to be cool and they

have to be really silky.

Mhm.

Again, maybe it's a personal preference.

It just makes if you are physically so

comfortable,

that's incredible.

I couldn't agree more. And you want your

bedroom to be the place that you look

forward to. I can tell that you love

your sheets. And what a beautiful hack.

Like that's one thing that's easy to

change. Sometimes it's hard for all of

us to go out and get a new mattress. But

by the way, we should be sleeping on a

mattress for maybe seven, maybe eight,

maybe 9 years, but not much longer than

that. Uh, but we did some research

recently and we found that one in three

Americans have had their mattress for

far too long. But a mattress is

expensive. And I think some of the other

elements of your bedroom environment,

your pillows, your sheets, you can

upgrade. And they're they don't have to

be expensive, but I do encourage go to

whatever store, find sheets that you

love just like you love yours. And you

want to look at your bed and want so

badly to get it and look forward to

sleep. Does it matter the kind of

mattress? Does it matter if it's firm or

not firm? Is there any data that would

support people sleep better with X or at

a 5% incline on a pillow?

We are actually doing some of these

studies right now to look at the best

sleep surfaces and the components of an

ideal mattress, springs, you know, what

is the topper? Those types of questions.

So stay tuned. But bottom line, there is

a lot of individual preference. However,

if you're talking about a really plush

surface versus a, you know, a really

firm surface, there is a lot of

individual difference and some people,

you know, really look forward to a

plush, you know, would love a plush

experience, meaning something very soft.

Um, others much prefer a firm surface.

And I do think that your your sleep

position matters. So, if you're a side

sleeper, imagine your body on its side

on the mattress. Are you a side sleeper?

I am a stomach sleeper.

Are you amazing? You're part of the the

minority. There aren't a lot of stomach

sleepers.

I don't even know how that is possible.

No, I think it's cool. I think it's

fascinating that we all have these

preferences that we just move into. I'm

a side sleeper and specifically I kind

of curl into the fetal position

covered by pillows. My husband gives me

such a hard time for it. He sleeps with

one and I have like 16 on my side.

Wait, what about the kids? So then what

position is this?

That is It's so funny. There's actually

scientific research on this. Um, one of

my favorite studies looked at different

sleeper positions and had all these cute

names for all the different types. And

that is called the starfish pose.

My kids are 100% starfish pose.

Is Shane also?

No. No. My husband doesn't move. He is a

back sleeper.

Okay. Interest. And you both You have

two starfish. That's so interesting. And

this research was it was interesting.

They um did they delivered the big five

personality assessment and then asked

questions about your sleeper position.

They found that extroverts were

associate the starfish pose was um

you're more likely to be an extrovert if

you slept as a starfish. So there you

go. You have two extroverts maybe on

your hands.

And then what about the rest?

Yeah, I have to go back to the paper for

all the other I think you're more

introverted if you're if you sleep like

I do actually, which is which is true. I

think I'm an extroverted introvert, I'd

say. But um the fetal position, you're a

little bit more introverted.

No, I'm face down. Nobody touch me. I'm

just in my silky sheets with an eye

mask. So I wear an eye mask and

earplugs. I love that.

Only wax earplugs when Shane is home. I

love that so much because that is your

routine. And what you've actually done

is you've classically conditioned

yourself to put in your earplugs, put on

your eye mask, slip into your sheets,

assume your position, and go to sleep.

And these little things make such a

difference. And what I also love about

that routine is you can take it with you

on the road.

I do. It's already packed.

There we go.

It stays packed.

It's beautiful. And then you can have

some protection cuz you never can

guarantee a quiet bedroom when you're

traveling. the light environment. So

many even really nice hotels often have

that sliver of light. What about air

quality?

We do see a strong association between

the quality of our environment and our

sleep. So if there's poor air quality,

if it's stuffy, if there are allergens,

we do see that that does interrupt our

sleep. So buying an air purifier that

can promote good air air flow and air

quality can be useful.

Do you usually use air filter?

I do. I do like and that's part of my

sleep routine. I also ear do earplugs

and an eye mask every night and I have

brands that I love and I know, you know,

that I can um they're my go-to things

and I take those with me when I travel.

I also do like a little bit of

background noise. And so that is one

nice thing that an air purifier provides

is a little bit of background noise to

attenuate any interruptions. You know, a

siren even a town over you can sometimes

hear, you know, in the country or if

you're in an urban environment, there

are definitely going to be noises. Is

there any data that would support it

enhances sleep or does something to the

brain while the brain is going through

its cognitive processes or some research

to show that pink noise which are

generally kind of natural sounds can be

associated with memory consolidation or

not.

Mhm.

What's the difference between pink and

white noise?

Basically different frequency of sound.

White noise tends to be a little bit

more of a static or mechanic noise

whereas pink noise is typically a

natural sound. It does make sense cuz

white noise is a little jarring.

Yes. So, one of the biggest differences

is that pink noise has more power at

lower frequencies. It's typically

natural sounds, rain or a babbling

brook. And research has shown

associations between the use of pink

noise and memory consolidation. Believe

it or not, you have talked a lot in the

past about cognitive health,

Alzheimer's, sleep, mortality. Are there

sleep biomarkers

that we would be able to look for? Sleep

is a really rich process and I think we

often kind of hyperfocus on duration.

Getting enough duration is a really

important part of the equation. For the

vast majority of adults, that's between

7 and 9 hours and finding where you are

on that spectrum and ideally meeting it

as many nights of the week as possible.

Realizing not every night is going to be

perfect, but doing your best. Now, in

addition to getting enough sleep is

consistent sleep. That is another

vitally important thumbrint of what

constitutes good sleep health.

Consistent sleep meaning falling asleep

at the same time and waking up at the

same time as many nights of the week as

possible and keeping those times as

close together as possible. Varying by

maybe 15 minutes here, 30 minutes there,

an hour, but really no no longer than

that. Now, in addition, I want you to

wake up and I want you to feel good from

sleep. I want you to tell me that you

feel restorative. Now, in addition to

duration, to the consistency of our

sleep, to being satisfied with our

sleep, consolidated sleep is also

vitally important. Sleeping as much as

possible in one consolidated period of

sleep that's not interrupted by multiple

prolonged awakenings. Waking up from

time to time is not a problem. As long

as you keep the lights low, it's

typically to use the bathroom and come

back to bed as soon as you can. Those

are the four markers of what we call a

good night's sleep. And doing your best

to meet those as many nights of the week

as possible. But I think one of the

things that we do is we kind of will

hyperfocus on duration. And we'll talk

about all of the the dangerous and scary

things that happen if you don't meet

those things. But the truth is sleep is

not going to be perfect every night. But

the key is getting back on track as

quickly as possible towards those four

components. Now, those are kind of the

manifestations of a good night's sleep.

But the interesting thing about sleep is

a health behavior is it's also

intimately related to a constellation of

other things. I mean, I like to say that

good sleep really starts when you wake

up and getting plenty of blue light,

natural sunlight exposure over the

course of the day. The timing of your

meals, this is your work, the

composition of your meals, um managing

your stress over the course of the day.

I think one of the most powerful tools

that is really not widely understood is

meditation and mindfulness and those

tools allow you to find peace in a

moment. Um, do you meditate before

sleep?

I do. I very regimented. What's your

pre-sleep routine?

Meditation. Well, after the kids are

asleep, I do the whole

You wash my face. I use this essential

oil. Um, yes, I do.

I love that name. Your skin looks

amazing.

Um, and

sometimes I use the wax ear plugs,

sometimes I don't. I only use it when my

husband is home.

Does he snore? Is that why

we love him?

No, he actually has sleep apnnea.

Really?

Yes. Okay. Yes.

Oh, that's a whole other

It is a whole I mean he has I don't

know. His neck is like 18 in.

But does he have a CPAP?

We Yes, he does.

Amazing.

Every which way. It's very romantic.

Always hasn't. He's got like the

sleeves,

my mask is um

But I love that. That's great news.

Yeah. The other aspect is I'll put on a

meditation

before I go to sleep.

I love that.

15 20 minutes.

The same one. Do you use?

No, I just I'll switch it up or that or

some kind of noise.

Not white noise, but some kind of

What's so beautiful about that is that

it's your routine and you've classically

conditioned yourself to wash your face,

to start your meditation, to put on your

eye mask, and then your brain starts to

understand that what follows is sleep.

And I think sometimes we're I mean look,

we have busy days now more than ever

filled with information and all of this

stuff and then our day comes to a

screeching halt at night. And I think

that whole uh bedtime procrastination

trend emerged because especially younger

generations who are, you know, being

told to do things all day long and then

they finally have some agency at night

and they kind of kind of push back on

the idea of needing to sleep or needing

to keep a bedtime. But a good night's

rest is the strongest predictor of so

many aspects of our waking success.

Better productivity, better mental

health, better mood, better exercise.

When you exercise, you're going to get

more out of your sleep if you're well

rested. So many positive things when you

can put sleep first. But our days are

busy and then they come to a screeching

halt. And I think that the time between,

you know, you send the last email and

for us as moms putting our kids to bed,

it's so easy to think, you know, I'd

love to have a, you know, watch a show

or, you know, but then unfortunately

what can happen is a lot of times that

the next show will start and suddenly

there's not a lot of awareness about

your bedtime for many people and

watch shows for that reason.

It's so dangerous. It's a risky game,

right? Because then you want to know

what happens next.

Nope, I do not. If it's a show, I'm out.

Nope.

I love that. and finding ways to relax

and kind of fuel your soul and prepare

you for sleep so that you can get the

the rest that your body needs. If an

individual is

sleeping, um, is there a way to see if

there's an improvement in brain

function? Would that be on an EEG?

Again, that's probably uh outside of

what would happen at sleep, but I'm

assuming that you can see the health of

the brain

while it's sleeping. Is that this is a

great question. Now, of course, we need

to be measuring brain activity to really

know without a shadow of a doubt where

you are in terms of light sleep, deep

sleep, rapid eye movement sleep. Now, as

it relates to brain health and function

and structure, what um I think the

response I'd make is kind of twofold.

First, if you take someone who has maybe

what we call yo-yo sleep schedules,

which are, you know, keeping one bedtime

one night, you know, falling asleep at

10 p.m. one one night, 2 a.m. the next

night, waking up at 10:00 a.m. one night

one one morning, you know, 6:00 a.m. the

next morning. So, all over the map,

which is quite common. So, an irregular

sleep schedule or maybe not getting

enough sleep. So if you take someone who

is maintaining a schedule like that kind

of sleep and wake times all over the

map, sleep duration all over the map and

you move them into a regimented sleep

schedule. During sleep, what's going to

change is the structure is going to

improve. So that we're going to see a

healthy cycling in and out of all the

stages at the times that we would expect

to see those stages. Again, deep sleep

predominating in the first half of the

night and rapid eye movement sleep in

the second half of the night. So the

structure of your brain activity over

the course of the night will become more

regulated and you'll you're going to get

more out of your sleep. Also, if you

move someone from even someone getting

enough sleep but keeping that what we

call yo-yo sleep schedule, falling

asleep at different times all over the

week, waking up at different times all

over the week. We take someone like that

who's getting enough sleep, but we look

at their this the structure of their

sleep, it's going to be all over the

map. And if we move that person even to

a slightly shorter sleep schedule, but a

consistent one, so many things improve

and their brain starts to understand,

oh, this is when I'm going to fall

asleep. And then it can align itself

within that period in a much more

efficient way. So that sleeper is going

to move, even if they're getting a

little less sleep, into a schedule

that's more consistent and more

regulated and wake up and probably have

more energy than the person who is maybe

even getting more sleep, but sleeping

all over the map. Is there any data and

this might be very hard to study but the

that glimpmphatic system cleage the

cellular turnover do we know if it's

more effective

that mirrors that regular consistent

sleep?

What we do know is in lab studies and

these have been done in rodents because

we can inject the brains of rodents and

we do that to humans. No, not quite. No.

Yeah. But what those and what's so

interesting is these findings were

developed by a neuroscientist who wasn't

necessarily a sleep scientist but had

this amazing finding and in rodents they

found that the brains of of these

rodents in their studies that were

sleepd deprived compared to well-rested

there was an accelerated clearance of

toxic particles which are observed of

course in greater deposition in humans

with Alzheimer's disease and related

dementia as compared to healthy

controls. So there is this increased

clearance of these neural toxins in the

rodents that were allowed to sleep to

the tune of 60% greater clearance in the

well-rested rodents as compared to the

sleepd deprived. Isn't that fascinating?

And mechanistically what's happening

there is there's this fluid I like to

think of it as like Drano. It's washing

through the networks of our brain and

the gal cells expand when we're sleeping

allowing for accelerated clearance of

those toxic particles. And that

accelerated removal then results in

better brain health over time. And we've

looked at this in humans and we found

that in cohorts of older adults. Um

we've published several papers on this

where individuals enter the cohort at

age 65 and we we monitor them over time

and those individuals that are

maintaining poor sleep schedules.

They're struggling to get good sleep,

maintaining inconsistent sleep

schedules, they're at a market increased

risk for dementia as compared to the

individuals who are getting consistent

and regular healthy sleep. I'd like to

acknowledge one of the sponsors and

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position on sleep medications? Things

like ambient lunasta. I understand that

certain people tradone. I know that

people need them, but as a sleep

scientist, do you have concerns about

their utility?

This is a great question and there are

many millions of Americans who are using

sleep medications and there is a time

and a place for medication and for some

patients it is a lifeline if someone is

really struggling with sleep and has

been for many years. So the first answer

is talk to your healthcare provider and

create a plan that works for you. Some

of the research shows that in the longer

term it is advantageous to move onto a

behavioral change regime. But what is

interesting in individuals who have the

option and think they might be open to

behavioral intervention or medication.

The research that pits those two

treatments head-to-head pharmacological

intervention and behavior change

specifically cognitive behavioral change

for better sleep, we refer to this as

cognitive behavioral therapy for

insomnia or CBTI. When we take that

treatment and we compare it to

pharmarmacological intervention, those

two patients sufferers of insomnia and

we compare them over time, the

behavioral treatment wins out in the

short and especially in the longer term.

The unfortunate thing is we have a der

of sleep providers that can provide this

treatment. So it's one of the

interesting and exciting applications of

artificial intelligence for the future

to think about providing some of these

behavioral treatments. I was going to

ask you what is you're very involved in

sleep sleep nationally sleep globally

where do you think that the future is

going in terms of tracking improving

outcomes testing what is on the

forefront of sleep I am really excited

about the intersection of some of the

new technologies we're seeing and sleep

and specifically in my work which is

behavioral interventions I one of my

areas of expertise is designing

interventions to nudge and navigate

patients and populations towards better

sleep. And I am so excited at the idea

of developing an avatar that could

deliver tailored personalized

recommendations. It could help you, you

know, make sense and act on your

information from your wearable device. I

mean, how exciting to take, you know,

this the problem which is a der of sleep

providers and think about sleep

interventions at scale. Uh I also think

the trend towards sleep tracking is

incredibly exciting. These devices are

increasingly relied upon by many

millions of Americans. We published data

in 2019 to show that one in three

Americans were tracking their sleep with

some sort of wearable technology. And I

think that that number has only

increased since that time. And so um

ensuring that these devices are

increasingly accurate, increasingly

small and increasingly scalable and soon

I hope also able to detect signs and

signals for sleep disorders that people

might not even be aware they have and

might be limiting their sleep quality.

What would be one of those disorders?

There are more than 80 differentially

diagnosible sleep disorders, but a

couple of the big ones are insomnia.

Number one, it impacts anywhere between

30 and 40% of the population depending

on how we're measuring it and studying

it and in what population. But it's a

condition that is debilitating for many.

It is characterized by uh a chronic

experience of difficulty falling asleep.

So taking longer than 30 45 minutes

night in and night out. Uh difficulty

maintaining sleep. So uh maybe being

able to fall asleep but then waking up

and fighting struggling to get back to

sleep. waking up too early in the

morning and not being able to fall back

asleep. And those are typically also

accompanied with feelings of exhaustion

during the day. Individuals who suffer

from insomnia will tell us that they are

absolutely exhausted. And the frontline

treatment for sleep for insomnia is

cognitive behavioral therapy for

insomnia when available or

pharmacological intervention and then

kind of titrating to get onto a

behavioral regime. Often with insomnia,

we're trying to do away with maladaptive

cognitions about sleep. Someone with

insomnia will walk into their bedroom

and their cortisol will spike, which we

know interrupts your ability to relax

and prepare for sleep.

Um, the second most concerning sleep

disorder is obstructive sleep apnea and

that is, you know, is a condition marked

by often loud snoring, loud rockus

snoring, but also interruptions or

pauses in breath. Some

very scary. Yes. Yes. As a spouse. Mhm.

And so if those symptoms sound familiar

to anyone listening, there are

treatments. It's imminently treatable,

which is the good news. And there are a

range of options. But do find a sleep

professional to coach you on the

available options for your personal

needs. And treatment is a significant

predictor of better quality of life,

better sleep of course, uh better heart

health. Often in patients with untreated

sleep apnea, uh, blood pressure can

become uncontrolled. Um, many issues

start to snowball when you're not

getting proper treatment for obstructive

sleep apnnea.

That's absolutely true. Blood pressure,

hemoglobin, hematocrit, people, they

just don't feel well. Um, low

testosterone.

Do you guys use the Upworth sleep score

or No,

we do. That, you know, the good news is

there are a lot of, you know, very easy

to deliver questionnaires that are very

sensitive for your risk for these

things. So you don't often even have to

go into a sleep lab just to get a sense

of if you're at risk for some for some

of these conditions. The Epworth

sleepiness um scale, the insomnia

severity index. Uh for any providers or

clinicians listening, um the Berlin

questionnaire, uh the stop bang

questionnaire are all widely used

validated questionnaires that can give

you um you know, for instance, if you're

a primary care provider could give you a

really good sense of whether a patient

you're seeing uh is at risk for any of

these disorders. I want to close out

this podcast with some common sleep

myths. What is your top three myths that

you hear? Number one is this belief that

there's some people out there somewhere

somehow that do well on less than 7

hours. And there might be they're very

poorly studied if they are out there.

People who truly truly need less than

seven hours and they have a kind of

appropriate health profile. Um but we do

find there are several notable figures.

Um Thomas Edison was one and there have

been others in across uh across history

that people who brag about not getting

enough sleep. But Thomas Edison, yes, he

probably slept around 4 hours at night,

but he had a cut in his office and he

was known for taking protracted naps. So

it is not in fact true that he was only

sleeping for 4 hours a day. He simply

wore that on his shoulder as a valor of

honor somehow despite all of the health

concerns. but uh was in fact likely

sleeping closer to 7. So um really

duration we can't there's no cure

there's no silver bullet. We do need to

spend the time sleeping but the secret

is if you can combine a healthy duration

of sleep with consistent sleep. You

start to maybe need a little bit less

sleep overall because your sleep will

become so consolidated and so efficient

within the time that we're provided. the

idea of bedtime routines and the time

before sleep. We don't often factor that

in, but it is a vitally important part

of a sleep routine. We're really not

made to fall asleep immediately,

quickly, right away, but we need to set

ourselves up for success. And just

knowing that can be helpful. And then

creating a relaxing bedtime ritual,

whether that's doing a couple breathing

exercises, reading a couple pages in a

book. One simple thing that I love to

talk about is just one good thing from

your day. I think sometimes at night

time all the bad stuff can snowball. But

if you close your eyes and breathe and

focus on one person that touched you in

some way, you know, touched your heart,

was kind to you, was thoughtful, one

nice thing that you did can also

sometimes make us feel good ourselves.

That can just put you in the right

headsp space to drift off to sleep. And

then number two, I'd say is this myth

that falling asleep quickly is a sign of

good sleep. So often people say, “Oh,

you know, I'm such a bad sleeper. It

takes me 15, 20 minutes.” I'm like, yo,

it takes a healthy sleeper 15 to 20

minutes to fall asleep. But I think that

that some people think of that is, you

know, what's wrong with me? So falling

asleep quickly just as if you were

underfed and you were presented with a

buffet and you helped yourself to a ton,

you know, ate, you know, ton of food

right away and you're you're you're

starved for food. So similarly, if

you're falling asleep right away, you're

probably starved for sleep. And the

third myth is snoozing. So many people

at dinner parties or, you know, wherever

will open their phone and show me a

dozen snooze alarms and they're like,

“Look at me. I get all this extra

sleep.” And that is another myth that

hitting the snooze alarm will give you

more sleep. What the vast majority of us

are doing if we're using the snooze

alarm is is you're looking at your

schedule. Say you have to get up at 7:00

for work and that's a non-negotiable to

commute, to get ready, to all do all of

your things. So, what people are

typically doing is setting their first

alarm for 6:30 and then for 6:40 and

then 6:45. And I'm like, “Guys, let's

just set it for 7 and find the latest

possible time. Set your alarm and then

it's going to be tough. You've got to

get your butt out of bed.” Um, but just

commit. Say, you know, I'm going to

maximize my sleep and maybe put my phone

on the other side of the room so I'm not

this news.

Again, it's genius. We're all inspired

to sleep more and you know what? You

don't make it sound painful.

Oh, thank you. That means so much to me.

It's just important. You're really on

this mission to improve cognition

through sleep and just better life. And

if we can get ahead of it, then we can

get ahead of it for our children.

Absolutely.

And set them up for a more resilient

life.

Absolutely.

If we can do that, it's the biggest gift

as parents, giving them a good sleep.

Think about it. When they are

disregulated, it's often times when

they're tired.

100%.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins, you're just a joy

and um likewise it's so fun to be able

to sit down with my friends and people

that I just respect and admire the work

that they're doing in the world. So to

this I would say good day, but I'm going

to say good night.

Good night. And can we add sweet rums?

[Music]

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