<markdown>

00:00

Coming up on today's show. What I'm interested in is what made everybody get fat over the last, call it, hundred or so years. Why did we go from the fat lady in the circus to 77% of Americans are overweight or obese? If you're Robert Kennedy and you get kidnapped by Donald Trump and force-fed french fries,

00:21

on the airplane, he's going to be fine because he only does that once in a while. But if you're doing this every day, all of this rancid fat and the ultra processed foods that Americans eat every day, you're never getting the off signal. It's like pouring water in a bathtub with the drain always full. Eventually, it's going to fill up and overflow. That's what is causing our obesity epidemic.

00:43

I'm the type of guy who I once spent my lunch hour in the salad dressing aisle of Whole Foods going through every single bottle. And I found one single bottle out of the whole aisle that was made with olive oil and no seed oil. There are also two studies that unintentionally compared cigarettes to seed oils. And the cigarette wing did better than the seed oil wing.

01:08

Tucker, let's start off having you give a general overview of why seed oils are so toxic. Let's jump right into things. Um,

01:19

They're very susceptible to going rancid, right? And rancidity isn't something that we hear a lot about nowadays, but it used to be a big concern. Rancid fats are toxic fats. You want to avoid eating things that are toxic. And seed oils are, of all the fats that we consume, the most likely to go rancid and become toxic. And the result of that toxicity is…

01:45

I would argue, why we have this epidemic of chronic disease. So when we talk about rancidity making them toxic, where along the processing does that happen? When they're being manufactured, when they're sitting in storage on the bottle before we buy it or before we use the product, there's transportation, there's heating usually, or not usually, but sometimes when we're cooking with them.

02:09

So when does that happen throughout that process? It happens throughout the entire process, right? I saw a really interesting talk and the guy compared seed oils to LDL, right? Seed oils are 400 times, contain 400 times as many rancid fat molecules as an LDL particle does, right? Now, an LDL particle,

02:40

We all hear lots about LDL, but most of us don't understand that a native LDL particle is totally harmless, right? So that's a pretty good thing to use as your benchmark. And if you are consuming vegetable oils, seed oils…

02:58

that contain 400 times as many rancid fat molecules as an LDL, those rancid fat molecules are going to go into the LDL and they're going to become atherogenic LDL, right? That's what your cardiologist is worried about. He's worried about

03:14

LDL particles with rancid seed oil molecules in them, basically. And this has been known since the 1980s to be the primary driver behind cardiovascular disease.

03:30

So do we know specifically when the LDL is impacted? Is it with the oils becoming rancid and toxic beforehand or once they're incorporated into the LDL in the body? Well, you can, of course, consume rancid, right? I would argue that all vegetable oils are rancid. They do have a standard for rancidity. I haven't been able to find yet why they have that particular standard.

03:59

amusingly, but that standard is 400 times what your body is expecting. So that's a problem. Okay. They also are so you consume rancid oils, your body absorbs the rancid oils. It absorbs them into things called chylomicrons, which are basically delivery packages. It's a type of lipoprotein similar to an LDL particle.

04:27

And it shunts these into your bloodstream. And the first place that they go is to your heart, right? Your heart loves fat for fuel. So when you eat fat, your heart gets first dibs on the fat. So if you're eating rancid, toxic fats, right?

04:43

Obviously, having that bolus go straight into your heart first place is not exactly ideal. And then from there, after your heart and your arteries have a chance to absorb it, then it goes out into the rest of your body and gets absorbed and, you know,

04:59

At a later date, your liver gets the opportunity to detoxify it and then send it back out into the body in LDL particles or in BLDL, which are turned into LDL particles. We've been throwing these terms around, rancid, toxic.

05:15

Zoom in on a molecular level, what specifically is happening there? I think one of the most surprising papers that I found in looking into this stuff was a paper from the 1950s when they were trying to determine why you get radiation poisoning.

05:36

Good question, right? And it turns out that you get radiation poisoning because the polyunsaturated fats in your body get oxidized and they're toxic, right? So radiation poisoning is effectively polyunsaturated fat poisoning. And they took these rodents and they injected… So the primary fat molecule in seed oils is a fat called linoleic acid.

06:03

They injected rancid linoleic acid, linoleic acid hydroperoxide, into these rodents and it killed them very effectively. Since the 1950s, it's been understood exactly how toxic these are. In fact, they've used it as… I saw another paper that made me very mad when I first saw it and after a while I realized it made a lot of sense.

06:29

they were talking about using vegetable oils as a cancer treatment, right? So they would feed someone, you know, the theory was, and they did this in animals, that they would feed you a lot of vegetable oil, and then they would use radiation to oxidize the vegetable oil in the tumor, and that would kill off the tumor, right? So it's, you know, and what kind of

06:55

does it have on your body? I mean, we know this in great detail, right? A rancid fat can cause another fat to go rancid. So it can cause a chain reaction in your body. This is why we have antioxidants in your body, right? The primary antioxidant in the body is something called glutathione. And if you, for instance, have an animal that can't make glutathione, it won't be born because the

07:20

lipid peroxidation, you know, is the term for rancidity, is so, you know, if you don't have a way to break it, break the chain reaction, it will kill you quite quickly, right? So if you are unable to make glutathione, you're not going to be born because you will die in the uterus. So

07:40

So it can cause other fats to become rancid. The rancid fats can go and damage proteins. It can damage DNA. You know, pretty much any other molecule in the vicinity is going to be susceptible to the effects of these toxic rancid fats. So, for instance, one of the more gee whiz, that's terrible things I saw is there's a paper talking about how people can become rancid.

08:07

allergic to their own DNA, right? That's horrible. And they're not really becoming allergic to DNA. It's that these rancid fats are binding to DNA and the body sees these rancid fats essentially as indicative of a bacterial infection. And so just like with poison ivy, which is also caused by rancid polyunsaturated fats, right? The polyunsaturated

08:31

Poison ivy rash is the same process. Your body interprets this as an infection and goes to try and clear out the infection. Now, of course, it's not an infection. There's no bacteria or virus there. It's attacking your own body. In that case, the DNA. Obviously, being allergic to your own DNA is a very bad thing. You mentioned the fact that after we absorb these, the first organ to be impacted is the heart, and then it goes throughout the body.

08:58

On a cellular level, talk about how these are integrated. Is any of these fats being used for energy? I know cell membranes play a role in the integration of these fats in the body. Take it to the cell. Yeah, so when you eat a fat, they're most, I don't know what the exact,

09:21

Well, let's just say there are two paths that this fat molecule is going to take, right? One of them is going to be used as fuel and be oxidized. And polyunsaturated fats are preferentially used as fuel. And we think that that happens essentially for the same reason that your body has like a cascade of things that it will use for fuel, right? So at the top are things like ethanol, right? Ethanol is toxic.

09:53

Sorry, guys, but it's just true, right? So when your body gets ethanol, it wants to get rid of it as quickly as possible. And one of the ways that it does it is by oxidizing it, using it for fuel, okay? Glucose, same thing. When your body eats glucose, it ramps up its metabolism because one of the ways it gets rid of excess glucose, which can also be toxic, is by using it for fuel. So fats are the same thing.

10:19

in fats there's a hierarchy right the polyunsaturated fats are the most unstable and therefore the most likely to become toxic and they are the ones that are preferentially used for fuel and they're used basically in order of the likelihood that they're going to become toxic to the body right next fate next step down monounsaturated fats like the fats and olive oil um

10:46

Those can become rancid, but when they do, they don't become very toxic. And, you know, that's one of your body's favorite fats is monounsaturated fats because it can use them, you know, for phase two that we'll get to in a minute. And then the most stable ones, the least likely to become rancid are saturated fats, right? So when your body takes these…

11:09

you know, when your body gets excess glucose, the first thing it does with it is use it for fuel. Second thing it does with it is turn it into a saturated fat because that's the safest storage form that your body has. Right. And then it can either store it or it can turn it into a monounsaturated fat, which it likes to use for things in path two. So path two, if the fat is not going to get used for fuel, right.

11:34

it's going to be incorporated into your body tissues in a variety of different ways, right? Every single one of our cell membranes is comprised primarily of fats, right? And they are packaged together using a molecule called choline into a structure that creates the cell wall around every single cell. And those, um,

11:58

they're called phospholipids, are typically a saturated fat and an unsaturated fat, right? Unlike a triglyceride, which has three fats attached to a glycerol backbone, a phospholipid has two fats attached to a choline backbone. And there's some other variations on that that we won't get into, right? But your body very much likes to have saturated fat. I mean, you know, it's kind of funny,

12:27

The idea that we've been pursuing a low saturated fat diet for the last gosh knows how long your body makes all the saturated fat that it needs. Right. It preferentially makes saturated fat because it needs it for every single molecule in every single cell membrane in your entire body. Right. The first fat is always a saturated fat. And then the second fat is either a monosaturated fat or a polyunsaturated fat.

12:56

So even if you don't eat any saturated fat at all, your body will make all the saturated fat it needs because it has to have a certain amount of it for your body to exist. Right. So not eating saturated fat.

13:11

It's kind of ridiculous. Same thing with monounsaturated fats. That's what your body prefers to use as the second fat. And if you don't eat any of it, then your body will just make it from the saturated fat. It'll make it saturated fat from the carbohydrates and then monounsaturated fats from the saturated fats. Your body can't make polyunsaturated fats, right? And that's the

13:40

And your body has to have a certain amount of polyunsaturated fats for it to function correctly, for your cell membranes to function correctly, right? Because one of the things that your cell membranes do is…

13:53

pump things in and out of the cell. Okay. And these chemical pumps that your body uses actually depend on the molecular energy of the fats that comprise the membrane to work. Okay. So if you take one of these pumps from an animal that has, say, a lot of polyunsaturated fat and put it into the cell membrane from an animal that has less polyunsaturated fat, it will run slower. Right. So this becomes…

14:22

I may be getting ahead of myself a little bit here, I mean. But at any rate, so those are the two pathways, fuel or structure. And the type of fat is very important for the structure in things like your eyes or your brain. Your body needs a certain amount of polyunsaturated fat in order to function correctly, which is why, for instance, if you raise an organism in a

14:47

that in an environment that's deficient polyunsaturated fats, which they have to get through the diet, then they will have, you know, things like low IQ, they'll have mental problems, they'll have problems with their eye development, you know, so it's, those are the two pathways. And it's very important which fats we're getting in putting into those pathways, right? The polyunsaturated fats, your body doesn't distinguish between the two of them.

15:16

Right. And that's a point that we're going to get to as we go through this. Right. Your body knows, for instance, that your cell membrane should be X percent polyunsaturated fat, but it doesn't typically control which solid saturated fat is going in there. That's determined by your diet. Okay. Just trying to summarize some of what you've gone over here.

15:37

Cell membranes normally have saturated fat and polyunsaturated fat to make a healthy cell membrane. The problem is when we take in seed oils, the PUFA unsaturated part is going to be made from unhealthy, toxic, rancid fat instead of a healthy PUFA. So let's talk about what a normal situation would be when it comes to the PUFA.

16:05

when things are functioning and the structure is normal? Yeah, so it's going to be a large part of… There are two types of polyunsaturated fats, right, that we're going to talk about, omega-6 and omega-3. And omega-6 fats generally come from seeds in the environment,

16:30

Omega-3 fats generally come from leaves in the environment, right? And I make that distinction because mammals can't make polyunsaturated fats, right? We have to eat them. So you and I get them by eating something else that either ate a leaf or a seed or ate something else that ate a leaf or a seed. At somewhere down the chain, there was a leaf or a seed that produces these fats, right? There's a plant.

16:57

that produce these fats for us to eat. So say we eat a cow, right? Cows in the normal course of things, mostly grass, you know, leaves, and they're going to get a lot of omega-3 fats. So your body has evolved to expect this balance in the environment of roughly one to one or maybe two to one of omega-6 fats to omega-3 fats, right? But roughly a balance. So

17:28

The fats have a variety of different purposes in the body. They're part of our immune system. They're used for signaling. So for instance, when you get hungry, you are experiencing hunger because your body is taking omega-6 fats out of the gut line, out of the lining of your intestines and turning them into fat.

17:50

basically a drug called an endocannabinoid that goes to your brain and says, you know, I'm hungry. Right. Now, there's supposed to be a balance there. And it's supposed to be, you know, the omega three fats don't have that hunger causing effect. So if you have

18:10

lots of omega-6 and not enough omega-3, then all you're going to get is the hunger signal constantly, right? Too much of a hunger signal, and that will cause you to overeat. So there's, you know, your body expects this balance, you know, and this is true in your eyes, it's true in your brain. You know, one of the most interesting things that I…

18:36

When I fixed my diet and when the people I was working with started fixing their diets, based on my experience, is we all noticed that our vision got a bit sharper, right? And it typically happened pretty quickly. And I thought that was pretty interesting. I didn't really understand why until recently. But as you're taking up more omega-3 fats, the omega-3 fats are more

18:59

active, okay, in your cell membranes, and they can react better to light signals, right? And they're transmitting those signals onto your brain more effectively, right? So it's literally having an effect, you know, that kind of a fundamental effect in your body where it can affect nerve transmission, your vision, you know, it'll affect your

19:20

your immune function because, you know, they typically the way they, I mean, there are some caveats here, but generally talk, you know,

19:30

When your body has an immune response, it's going to take these polyunsaturated fats that are stored in the cell membranes and convert them into various different signaling molecules, right? And the omega-6 signaling molecules tend to be pro-inflammatory. They're telling your body to start an inflammatory reaction. And the omega-3 fats tend to be

19:55

I don't want to say anti-inflammatory, but sort of resolution of inflammation signals, right? So your body needs both things there, both components to do this signaling. And, you know, if you get into a modern American diet where most people,

20:12

you know, people are eating a tiny fraction of the omega-3 fats that their body's expecting, well, they're really good at starting inflammation, but they're not going to be able to shut it down because they don't have the building blocks that they need to make these signals to calm down the inflammation in the body. When it comes to omega-3s, dietary, we have ALA, DHA, EPA. We've talked about omega-6, linoleic acid from these seed oils.

20:41

Are there any other omega-6 fatty acids other than linoleic acid we're getting through the diet? That's a great point. So on both sides, there's kind of a hierarchy, right? There's the fats we can get from plants. On the omega-6 side, that's linoleic acid, basically. On the omega-3 side, that's alpha-linoleic acid, basically. Okay.

21:09

When those go into a higher organism, then they can be converted into what we call long-chain polyunsaturated fats, which are the EPA and DHA that we hear about. And on the omega-3 side, on the omega-6 side, it's primarily a fat called arachidonic acid. And the long-chain fatty acids we get from eating

21:35

animal foods. Okay. Plant foods don't contain those. Your body can make those from plant foods to an extent with, again, all sorts of caveats in there. And, but, um, certain of these fats, if you're, you know, your body can't typically make

21:57

enough of the omega-3 fats. So if you're on a vegan diet, you're not going to be eating any animal foods. You're not going to have a dietary source of these omega-3 fats, these long-chain omega-3 fats that your body needs. And so you're going to be deficient in them, right? Which can cause neurological issues, vision issues. Obviously, that's not a great thing. Typically,

22:31

We would be getting some small amount of the short chain fatty acids and then long chain fatty acids on both sides from our diet. But as the American diet has been changed to reduce the amount of animal fat that we're consuming, we're getting…

22:49

most of these fats from plant-based sources. And for instance, with DHA, your body is really, really, really bad at making DHA from plant-based sources. In some studies I've seen in humans, they're unable to make any at all, right? And part of the reason for that is, the primary reason for that is that when your body is trying to make the longer chain fats that it actually needs from the shorter chain fats that it's getting in the diet,

23:19

They're using a single pathway to do that conversion. And the omega-6 tends to block the pathway. So it takes up the pathway. So you wind up making excess amounts of the omega-6 fat, arachidonic acid, and you can't make enough of the omega-3 fats. So, you know, that gets back to what I was describing before, where you wind up with a…

23:43

over allotment of omega-6 fats in your membranes and under allotment of omega-3 fats in your membranes. All right, just to clarify on the omega-6 side a little bit more, the linoleic acid, we're getting that through plants, including the seed oils. The arachidonic acid, it sounds like there's good conversion there from the linoleic acid, but we're also getting that through the diet directly as well?

24:12

Yes. Yep. Arachidonic acid you get, you get from when you're eating meat as well. And we've been talking about all these negative health consequences of linoleic acid. Does any of that get pushed onto arachidonic acid or is that purely good for us? Well, that's, that's an interesting question. Um,

24:34

arachidonic acid is essential right and what that means in dietary terms is required for life and your body can't make it right um so there are other things like say glucose is required for life but your body can make all the glucose it needs you don't need to eat glucose right an essential component of the diet is something that's required for life that your body can't make so arachidonic acid is essential dha is essential uh epa is essential right those

25:04

three fats, one omega six fat, two omega three fats. So arachidonic acid is a super important fat because it's used to stimulate inflammatory reactions. Right. So if you have an infection, if you get injured, right.

25:26

it's used in developing your brain. If you're deficient in arachidonic acid when you're developing, you're going to have serious neurological defects. It's a very important thing, but you only need a tiny little amount of it. It is very dangerous in the body. When it gets oxidized, it is extremely toxic, which is why your body is keeping it around as a signaling molecule. But

25:52

Because of that, your body tends not to, you know, it makes more arachidonic acid when it has a need for arachidonic acid. It doesn't just automatically make it, right? I mean, this is kind of a straw man argument that people often make when they're describing omega-6 fats. And they say, oh, well, you know, if you eat

26:13

too much seed oils, your arachidonic acid doesn't go sky high. Well, yes, because your body isn't dumb for the most part. And it knows that this is a dangerous fat, but it needs it, but it only needs a little bit. So it's very carefully regulated in the body so that your body has enough of it. Now, what seems to happen is when you get inflammation,

26:36

and it starts getting converted, that process is driven by how much you have in membranes. So then you can get excess inflammation because you've got

26:46

Your body is expecting X amount of arachidonic to be around, and it's got more than it expects because your entire body is saturated with arachidonic acid because it has all the precursors that it could ever want to make arachidonic acid. Additionally, part of the way that the arachidonic acid in the body is regulated is because the body will use omega-3s first

27:14

And then it will use omega-6 second, okay? So in a natural diet, your body is going to have a lot of omega-3 in your tissues and less omega-6 than what we have now. But because we don't have enough omega-3, we wind up with a lot more omega-6 in our membranes than what we're supposed to have. All right, so the overarching thesis here, what we're talking about today, these seed oils are providing us with too many

27:42

Omega-6 fats, linoleic acid, which is rancid and toxic, arachidonic acid, the body's better at making that as it needs it as a whole. Right. Do we ever have to worry about dietary taking in too much arachidonic acid like we do through linoleic? It's, I suppose, it's theoretically possible, but I've never heard of a case in humans. I mean…

28:09

You know, it's in meat, but there's not a lot in meat. And people who eat nothing but a carnivore diet seem to be fine. So, you know, I suppose if we went and did the same thing that we've done with seed oils, which is where we've, you know, so say you went to beef and refined out the arachidonic acid and gave yourself an enormous amount of that. Would that be a problem? Yeah, it could be a problem, but nobody actually does that.

28:36

One of my daily supplements throughout the long, cold Canadian winter is the vitamin D3K2 from Quicksilver. This is a highly bioavailable combo that's packaged in their advanced nano emulsion delivery system for maximum absorption. Vitamin D is one of the most important vitamins in the body, and it's essential for overall health. It supports bones, muscles, immune function, mood, and metabolic health.

29:02

Taking vitamin D and K together can balance their effects and minimize the risk of supplementing with vitamin D alone. Vitamin D mobilizes calcium and vitamin K puts it back in the bone matrix. So these vitamins have a great synergy together. Each pump of the supplement contains 2,500 IU of vitamin D3 and 90 micrograms of vitamin K2. You get 100 pumps per bottle.

29:27

As a listener of the show, take 15% off your first Quicksilver order today by going to ultimatehealthpodcast.com slash Quicksilver. Again, that's ultimatehealthpodcast.com slash Quicksilver. Use the code ULTIMATEHEALTH15 at checkout to save your 15%.

29:43

If you're looking for the best quality vitamin D3K2 supplement on the planet, Quicksilver is the one to get. Order yours today. Looking to expand your horizon when it comes to animal-based proteins in your diet, Maui Nui has a unique offering, the only 100% wild harvested meat that's completely stress-free. This venison comes from axis deer on the island of Maui, which is a non-native species to Hawaii.

30:10

Numerous and free roaming, these deers are wild and humanely harvested using 100% stress-free methods. What does stress-free mean? These deer are harvested at night using forward-looking infrared technology or FLIR, so they're unaware of people. Not only is this more humane, it provides a meat that's truly wild until the moment of harvest.

30:31

Some of Maui Nui's offerings in their online butcher shop include frozen fresh venison, venison sticks, an organ blend supplement, and venison bone broth.

30:41

The venison sticks are one of my go-to snacks. They're high in protein, great for taking with you on the road, and they taste amazing. Original's my favorite, but I also love Peppered and Peppered 10. Their latest version is Peppered 10, which contains 5% liver and 5% heart. You don't taste the Oregon flavors, but you get a nutritional boost.

31:02

For TUHP listeners, Maui Nui is offering 15% off your first order. Supplies are limited by the nature of their work. So secure your Maui Nui now by going to mauinuivenison.com slash TUHP. Use the promo code TUHP at checkout. That's mauinuivenison.com slash TUHP and use the code TUHP for 15% off your first order.

31:27

Maui Nui ships to all 50 states and your meat's delivered right to your front door. It's super convenient. Try Maui Nui today. These delicious and nutritious meats are going to have you hooked. All right, coming back to the cell membrane. Healthy cell membrane, saturated fat, polyunsaturated fat,

31:47

In an ideal situation, would that be a combination of DHA, EPA, ALA, arachidonic acid, and linoleic acid? Because again, I want to add this in, linoleic acid is the bad guy here, but it is essential in a small amount. Is it the bad guy? It's, I mean, it's important to remember that pretty much every food that you eat is going to have some amount of linoleic acid in it, right? It's perfectly normal part of the diet.

32:16

It's only a problem when we have too much of it, right? Which is true for pretty much everything. I mean, too much oxygen can be toxic, too much water. You can get water toxicity, which people actually die from drinking too much water. You know, so anything can be a bad guy if there's too much of it, or of course, if there's too little of it.

32:40

Now, is linoleic acid essential? For a long time, from the 1930s, it was thought to be essential. But some recent research done in the Boston Children's Hospital… So this was… The work they did on this was in rodents originally. And they put rodents on fat-free diets, and they discovered that they got these deficiency problems. And they discovered that if they…

33:10

Gave them linoleic acid that the deficiency problems would go away. So they said, oh, it's essential. And then after a while, they realized that there was this other class of fats called which are the omega-3 fats. And that that was also a requirement. And they discovered that humans had a requirement for the omega-3 fats. Right. So at one point they were they have this medical food called parental nutrition and.

33:38

um, which is where you can't eat. So they inject, you know, they feed you intravenously and they use fat for that. And they were using, I think it was corn oil or cottonseed oil or something, something that's only got omega-6 fats. And these people started getting all these fatty acid deficiency symptoms. And they discovered that, you know, people have a

34:02

that omega-3 fats are essential in humans and they put this kid on soybean oil which has some ala in it and that the deficiency symptoms went away okay so the problem was they never did

34:17

test where they only gave long chain omega-6 and omega-3 fats and no short chain omega-3 and omega-6 fats and they didn't do that up until recently when they've been dealing with the toxicity of soybean oil um used in this tpn infusion um and they started

34:42

started realizing they realized up in Boston Children's that if you replace the soybean oil with fish oil, that it would eliminate the toxicity that they saw with soybean oil, right? So for instance, you'd put, you know, typically, there are kids who are born with what's called short gut syndrome, where they have their small intestine isn't long enough to allow them to absorb nutrients from food. So they

35:09

feed them intravenously until they can come up with some way to deal with that problem and one of the things that would happen pretty commonly is that they would die of liver failure

35:18

And they realized that they were, you know, if you replace the soybean oil with fish oil, that not only would the liver failure go away, you know, cure, be cured, but you could keep these kids for years on fish oil for like five, six years and they'd be totally fine, right? Now, fish oil typically has only a tiny amount of linoleic acid in it, but a lot of doctors were concerned that

35:43

about putting kids on fish oil because they said, oh, well, linoleic acid is essential and this has hardly any, so it's got to be bad for them. So they did, aside from having kids on fish oil for years, a good test, they went back to the rodent models and realized that nobody had ever done a test where they just put rodents on these long-chain polyunsaturated fats and

36:10

to see if they would survive. So Boston Children's did this test, 10 generations of, I think they were mice or rats, whatever, with no short chain omega-6 or omega-3 fats, only the long chain ones, only the animal ones. And they are perfectly fine, right? So what we've realized is that

36:34

The essential fats are the long chain fats, right? The omega fats that we get from eating animals and that the short chain fats, the ones we get from plants are what they call conditionally essential, where if you aren't getting what you need, your body can use these other fats to replace them in

36:54

in some situations and in other situations to create its own long chain fats that it uses where it has to. Isn't it true though? Is that a long enough answer? No, that was great. But my question with all that, we talked about the rats in the lab.

37:10

To me, it seems like we'd only be able to do this in a lab because any whole food diet is going to have the short chains naturally in there, at least in a small amount. Right. Yeah, that's a great point. Nobody's ever gotten…

37:24

fatty acid, an essential fatty acid deficiency, except in a lab or under the care of a physician, right? It never happens. I mean, arguably we've done it to ourselves with the long chain omega-3 fats, but you're not getting the overt. Well, you know, I say that, but you know, so one of the first deficiency signs that you have is skin problems. And, um,

37:52

There's a famous physician, Mike Eads, who wrote a book called Protein Power, one of the best-selling diet books ever. And he was talking in one of his recent newsletters about how he had all these skin conditions and

38:10

itchy skin on his back and I forget what, oh, and back pain. And he was able to resolve both of those by taking fish oil supplements and eating more fish. So potentially he had become deficient in omega-3 long chain fatty acids and was able to resolve it fairly quickly by adding those back into his diet. So yeah, I mean, I guess aside from that, you're not going to see

38:39

you know, nobody's ever going to be deficient in linoleic acid, right? The idea that it's an essential fat, so we need to eat lots of it is just stupid.

38:47

You know, we, we get all that we need from the foods that we eat and you're never not going to be able to do that. I mean, I guess unless you go on a rice, a hundred percent rice diet, and then you're going to die of something else first. So you're highlighting exactly what I was getting at there. The fact that even beef, I think the number is 2% LA within beef. So to try and find foods that you would become deficient in,

39:14

In LA, I don't even know how you do that. Like you said, maybe rice or something. Yeah. I mean, rice, yeah, rice, white rice. The point of white rice is that they've removed the omega-6 fats from it, right? Because those go rancid. And white rice, brown rice goes rancid very quickly. White rice with no omega-6 fats is very stable and you can store it. That's why we have white rice. So yeah, I mean, you know, but I mean,

39:42

There's a disease called beriberi. I think it's a thiamine deficiency that will kill you if you go on an all-rice diet. The Japanese Navy tried that in the early 20th century, and it didn't work very well. So coming back to our ideal healthy cell membrane,

39:57

With all the different fats we've talked about, what would be the components there? Yeah, so you're going to have half of all the molecules. All the molecules are going to have half a saturated fat. And then in what they call the SN1 position. And then the SN2 position is going to be either a monounsaturated fat or a polyunsaturated fat. And the polyunsaturated component, the amount of polyunsaturated fat is pretty much genetically…

40:27

determined, right? But the omega-3, omega-6 ratio is determined by your diet, largely. And when it comes to the PUFAs, are short chains in the cell membrane as well, or just the long chains? Short chains seem to be in the cell membrane because, I mean…

40:48

Yeah, because we're, that's what we have, right? Well, that's the linoleic acid, so that makes sense. Yeah, the linoleic acid. So, you know, and it's ratio. I mean, one of my big open questions is what did the cell membranes look like in those rodents who were fed no short chain fats? But we don't have an answer to that. I've seen…

41:19

papers where they manipulate this stuff. And, you know, your body gets to a point where it's super protective of these long chain fatty acids. And, you know, when, you know, you can't, you know, the mother's body will prioritize delivering these long chain fatty acids to the offspring. So you wouldn't, you know, it's really tough to get an animal into a

41:49

situation where it doesn't have any long chain fatty acids and see what happens. And, you know, there's just not been any research I can, I've seen that, you know,

42:01

All the lab rats are fed seed oils basically in some quantity as part of their fat, right? Soybean is typically the fat. Soybean oil is typically the fat ration in the control arm. So, yeah, I don't think anybody's ever done a study that would look to see long term what membranes look like without any short chain poof of fats in the diet. It'd be interesting.

42:24

I mean, obviously they're not needed because these rodents did just great for 10 generations. So, so we've been talking about the structural component here for a while of the cell as a whole. Let's talk about the mitochondria and we're going to get to energy too, but I want to stick with structure and the cell membrane there is very similar to the outer part of the cell. So when somebody is taking in a high LA diet, how is the mitochondrial membrane impacted? Yeah.

42:55

So mitochondria are kind of a special case. And the reason is that mitochondria are bacteria, ultimately, right? And so in the…

43:10

mitochondrial membrane, there's a fat called cardiolipin. So we had, I mentioned before, triglyceride. Cardiolipin has four fats on a double glyceride backbone, okay? And it's only found in bacteria and in mitochondria, which is one of the ways that we know mitochondria are bacteria. You don't find it anywhere else in the body, right? So…

43:36

and mitochondria are also where pollyants because they're the energy production center of the body that's where polyunsaturated fats are most at risk of becoming oxidized of going rancid right so unlike most other membranes in your body you're where you know they kind of your body's kind of like yeah whatever fat goes in there is okay

44:02

Your body pays very close attention to what fats comprise the mitochondrial, cardiomembrane, the cardiolipin molecules. So for instance, linoleic acid is in mitochondria very good at producing energy, right? So…

44:22

But it's also very susceptible to go rancid in the mitochondria. The cardiolipin with four linoleic acid fats is the most delicate fat. It's the most likely to go rancid. And as I said at the beginning of this, when they go rancid, they start taking out all the adjacent fat molecules and do damage to the proteins, and it's not a good thing. So in your brain…

44:50

Your brain is super susceptible to rancid fats and therefore has almost no linoleic acid in it, right? It is very protective of the fats that it will put into the mitochondria in the brain. And there are some other variations in different tissues, but that I think are the two most extreme variations.

45:10

cases, right? The heart and the brain. Um, the heart prefers linoleic acid because it needs to really produce energy. Um,

45:20

The brain avoids linoleic acid because it's so susceptible to damage from oxidation, right? What does damage from oxidation in the brain look like? It looks like Alzheimer's or Parkinson's disease, right? All the neurodegenerative diseases have a strong oxidative damage component to them. If you want to make…

45:43

uh, the amyloid plaques that we see in Alzheimer's in the brain, you can do it by injecting oxidized linoleic acid into the brain and the brain will very happily start making these plaques. Um, that's obviously not a good thing. Um, so, but that said, your body does respond even there to dietary, um,

46:13

to the dietary fat content, right? So in, again, this is stuff that you can't really do in people, but in rats, they've put them on high linoleic acid diets and low linoleic acid diets, and they see the linoleic acid content of the cardiolipin in the brain go up and down. That seems to happen less in people.

46:33

You know, same in the heart, same in the liver. And the problem is, you know, we were talking about where do these things become rancid. Mitochondria is one of the places where the fats can become rancid, right? Because the mitochondria is basically a little engine. And I mean…

46:56

I can't remember these numbers because they're just so outlandish, but basically your body's temperature is hotter than the surface of the sun if you look at it on a per square inch basis, right? Because it produces so much energy and it contains about the amount of electricity of a lightning bolt, but it's distributed all over all of the systems, right? And that's all produced…

47:20

out of the mitochondria, right? Humans are, I mean, that was the whole idea behind the matrix, right? That humans are this incredible energy source. Well, it's true. But if you put all these fats in there that are susceptible to oxidation, they're going to get oxidized in there, right? So you wind up with

47:43

high amounts of linoleic acid in the diet, alter the composition of the mitochondrial membranes, and then

47:51

That starts producing these rancid fats like HNE is my favorite example because it's the best studied, which is a oxidized linoleic acid molecule. It can also be made from arachidonic acid, but because in practice you have about seven times people eating a modern diet

48:14

have about seven times as much linoleic acid in their cells as they do arachidonic acid. So when you look at these toxins, that's where they're going to be coming from mostly just because that's what's mostly there. So you can wind up getting, there's a disease called an antiphospholipid syndrome where you are

48:39

essentially having an allergic reaction where your cells… Okay, so the effect of having these toxic fats in your mitochondria is that the mitochondria stop working correctly, right? As I said, it damages the proteins, can damage the DNA, damages the other lipids, and then they stop

48:59

functioning correctly that's a signal for your body to do to either discard of the mitochondria what's called mitophagy eat the mitochondria or it's a sign if there's enough of it for the entire cell to do what's called autophagy which is basically suicide right or if there's too much of it for it to get to the point where it can do autophagy which is organized suicide then it gets into uh uh

49:30

Necropsy, where it just basically dies, right? And autophagy, it gets eaten by a white blood cell. Necropsy, it just… And sprays the cell contents out into…

49:47

the organism, right? So we have this autoimmune condition called antiphospholipid syndrome, where your body starts attacking itself. And what it's attacking is the oxidized cardiolipin that's released by these necrotic cells, right? Because again, it's a signal, right?

50:06

mitochondria bacteria, these oxidized phospholipids, these oxidized lipids in these damaged mitochondria are a signal of a bacterial infection and your body can't figure out

50:19

Oops, these are actually us. Right. So it starts attacking itself. And I've seen, you know, there's anti-cardiolipin. There's an anti-cardiolipin test for antibodies against these molecules. And my physician has made a practice at.

50:39

out of treating people with these incurable autoimmune diseases by putting them on a low linoleic acid diet and their antiphospholipid antibodies go away because they're not producing, you know, they're not having this cascade of rancidity coming out of their mitochondria. So in a normal situation, we're still going to have the linoleic acid and

51:06

It'll occasionally bond to the cardiolipin, be used to produce energy, be part of the regular cell membrane. Again, we're just taking this to an extreme and saying if there's too much of it and the ratio is off and things start going rancid and toxic. Right, right. And it causes cell damage. Again, Dr. Eads did a post recently where he looked at this great study where they were looking at…

51:38

uh, visceral, I think it was visceral fat because when your body, you know, when you eat, when you eat fat, okay. When you eat most things that you eat, go through your liver, right? Except for fat, except for most fat goes through into your lymph system, goes through your visceral fat, which cleans it out a little bit. And then, so what they did is they were looking at different types of people in an animal model where they

52:10

discovered that the higher the proportion of omega-6 fats in the body, the more damage was happening. It basically turns into a death spiral. If you have sufficient amount of omega-6 fats, it's like gasoline. If you saturate something with gasoline and drop a match on it, it's going to go poof. Well, the same problem, but if you only have, say, I don't know what a good example of this

52:36

metaphor may not be going but if you have you know say gasoline mixed with water right blend it up so that there's only a teeny little bit of glass in there and you soak the fabric in that and then drop a match on it you're not going to get a flame i imagine kids don't try this at home i haven't tested it i'm stretching for a metaphor here um but it happens in these in people right you get x

53:04

too high a proportion of these omega-6 fats and you start exceeding your body's capacity to detoxify it, right? And you start getting literally these lesions in these animals, in this animal model. You know, they open them up and they have lesions in their fat tissue because the omega-6 fats are breaking down and killing the tissue faster than the body can repair the damage. Now, this happens in people too, right? I mean, one of the hallmarks of…

53:33

obesity is high amounts of oxidized omega-6 fats in the fat tissue, right, in humans. And you have a condition called adipose dolorosa, which is basically sad fat or painful fat, depending on how you translate the Latin. And Dr. Kate Chanahan, she says, oh, yeah, I can treat that. You know, you just put them on a low linoleic acid diet and that goes away. And it's

53:59

It's the process of these, you know, when you eat these fats, they concentrate in your fat tissues and they go rancid there, right? They're not just stable. They go rancid and then your body's got to deal with these toxins being produced in its own fat cells. Okay, so you talked about the fact that we produce this sad or painful fat with too much of this linoleic acid. How much of the obesity problem as a whole would you say is caused by these fats? Yeah.

54:28

And not just the pain of the fat we built. All of it. All of it. I mean, let me say that there are historically cases of gross obesity that existed that can't be blamed on seed oils, right? And

54:45

But they were very rare. Okay. I mean, there was a woman who was the fat lady in the Barnum and Bailey circus. And she made a lot of money back then she was quite successful being in the circus as the fat lady.

55:00

And you can go to Wikipedia and see pictures of her now. She's not all that fat. I mean, it's really shocking. But she was rare enough so that people would pay to go see her. Right. Nobody would pay to go to the circus to see a fat person nowadays. Right. The idea is ridiculous. You can go to the supermarket or walk down the street. So, yes, there's always been some kind of obesity issue.

55:26

What I'm interested in is what made everybody get fat over the last, call it 100 or so years, right? Why did we go from the fat lady in the circus to 77% of Americans are overweight or obese? Well, let's go deeper into physiology on that one. You did talk about, again, the painful fat, but why when these fats are coming into the body,

55:52

And you also mentioned before that the mitochondria can burn them for energy. Well, we know there's other issues, but why are people becoming fat when they ingest too many? Okay. So let's talk, let's walk, walk through the process, right? So you decide you were going to eat some French fries. Okay.

56:11

French fries are the most fattening food. Harvard did a study in 2011 where they looked at all the different foods. What's the most fattening food by a factor of, I think it was like seven. French fries are the most fattening food. Number two was potato chips, right? And then way, way, way down below that were things like

56:35

ice cream and carbohydrates right so if you take a boiled potato the ingredients in a boiled potato are potato and salt maybe if you're lucky right so what's the difference between a boiled potato and a french fry well the french fry is potato salt and seed oils right um

57:03

So why does that matter? Okay. When you eat a, when you eat a fat, most fats have, as we were discussing, right? Animal fats generally have all three components. They have saturated fat, monounsaturated fat, and polyunsaturated fat, right? So when you eat a fat, your body says, yay. And the oleic acid, the monounsaturated fat, and the linoleic acid,

57:33

the polyunsaturated fat, but only those two trigger an eating response, right? That's the yay. That's I, you know, I'm a hungry caveman running around and I've got something fat. You know, that's why they say living off the fat of the land, um, right. Your body's excited and it should be because that's survival, right? Getting a nice fatty meal means you're going to live to get the next nice fatty meal. Um,

58:01

So that stimulates your appetite and it makes you want to eat. And, you know, that's all great. Then your body makes a chemical called OEA from the oleic acid, right? And this is the off signal. This is the satiety signal. Okay. So

58:28

So you eat this fat. Your body has, as we discussed before, arachidonic acid down in your cell membranes in your gut. It turns it into these endocannabinoids, which are your body's hunger signal. Your body starts eating. And then after a little while, you're eating all this fat and you're getting all this oleic acid and your body starts making…

58:53

oleic acid into OEA, which is the satiety signal. It's the off signal, right? So that's great. But if you have too much linoleic acid in the diet, the off signal doesn't happen, right? And then your body can replace the arachidonic acid. It makes arachidonic acid from linoleic acid when it needs to.

59:18

If you're eating linoleic acid, then your body is going to keep making arachidonic acid and keep sending you the eat signal. But at the same time, it's not going to send you the stop eating signal, the OEA, right? If you give people OEA, they stop eating, right? If you take an animal, if you take like a rat, they've done this experiment in rats for obvious reasons in a second, right?

59:46

and inject these endocannabinoids into their brain, you know, feed them until they stop eating. They're full. They don't want anything else. They walk away from the food and you inject this, these endocannabinoids into the brain and they will turn around and start eating again. Right. It's literally the chemical messenger to cause you to eat. Um,

01:00:06

Okay, so you're eating your French fries, you're getting this eat signal, you're not getting the stop eating signal. And the next thing you know, you've gone through an entire giant McDonald's thing of French fries, right? Now, when I'm not even, you know, when they used to make French fries in beef tallow,

01:00:27

that you get these little teeny sleeves of french fries right because beef tallow has hardly any linoleic acid it has a lot of oleic acid your body gets this little you know yeehaw signal from the oleic acid and then it gets the turnoff signal so you eat some and then you stop right you don't get that with modern food cooked in french cooked in seed oils also the linoleic acid has

01:00:56

obviously become rancid in the fryer, right? High heat. And it turns into a chemical called HNE, right? Which I think I mentioned before, which is HNE goes into your cells and alters how your cells stores energy. It makes your body preferentially store fat, right? So you've got a, I'm going to eat too much.

01:01:25

B, I'm eating this rancid fat that's going to go into my body and it's going to make my body turn all of the carbohydrates that I just ate preferentially into fat and put it into storage. Right. And all that's fine.

01:01:42

If you only do it once in a while, right, if you're Robert Kennedy and you get kidnapped by Donald Trump and force fed French fries on the airplane like happened the other day, you know, he's going to be fine because he only does that once in a while.

01:01:57

But if you're the average American and you're eating junk food all day long, which is full of oxidized seed oils because all of this stuff is put up on a shelf for six months and the fats in there just go rancid while they're sitting there. So, you know, a fascinating thing about these rancid fats, you can't make an animal eat rancid omega-3 fats, right? And I mean, think about it, right?

01:02:25

That's rancid fish, right? What if you, can you imagine French fries cooked in fish oil? Oh my God, it's horrible. Yeah, exactly. Or if you open up a bag of Lay's chips and it had been, you know, fried in fish oil six months before. I mean, it's appalling. Well, you literally can't make, I mean, I read this hilarious article. They were trying to figure out the effect or this paper. They're trying to figure out the effect of, um,

01:02:55

rancid omega-6 fats on these rats. The rats would sooner starve than eat the rancid fats. They just refused. As soon as it got above a certain percentage of the food, they were like, nope, we're not going to eat this anymore. They literally had to gavage them, which means put a tube down their throat and pump it into their stomach to see what happens. Omega-6 fats don't have that effect.

01:03:20

Right. Rancid omega six fats smell a little bit flat. And a lot of people actually like the taste of HNA. And I think that the reason is because we've all humans evolved to eat cooked food and cooked fat is a sign of a cooked food. Right. It's like, oh, I'm going to get a I'm going to get a nice grilled steak, you know, that my cavewoman wife made for me tonight. So yeehaw. So that's like that is actually a bit of an eating trigger.

01:03:47

Let's come back to the McDonald's fries, just so I can clarify this point here. So the rats would eat the McDonald's fries though, right? They just wouldn't eat them if they were fried in omega-3s? Right, right, right. They will eat the rancid omega-6 fats. They won't eat the rancid omega-3 fats, just like people, I presume. I mean, there are cultures, my friend

01:04:10

traveled to Norway and his girlfriend's father gave him a Norwegian delicacy, the name of which I can't remember, but it's basically rancid fish and they love it. And he was like, Oh my God. Fine. Whatever. I different strokes for different folks, I guess. I mean, I have a bottle of

01:04:33

fish sauce. Thai fish sauce is basically fish that's gone so rancid that it's not disgusting anymore. So you're eating all of these French fries with rancid seed oils. It's triggered your eating thing and then it's triggering your body's storage. And if you're RFK, you've gotten it and you know, okay, so you only have French fries once a year. Well, your body's going to store the fat and then it's going to burn it off. It's going to release it.

01:05:03

But if you're doing this every day and it's, you know, all of this rancid fat and the ultra processed foods that Americans eat every day, you're never getting the off signal and you're never getting the opportunity to say, okay, burn it off, right? Let it out, right? It's like pouring water in a bathtub with the drain always full. Eventually it's going to fill up and overflow. That's what…

01:05:31

is causing our obesity epidemic. And we know down at the molecular level what's causing it and why this is happening to us. So now how can we address this process, right? There's a drug called Ramonivant. Ramonivant blocks the body's uptake of endocannabinoids and it prevents obesity, right? And it was a human-improved drug. Unfortunately, it also caused some people to

01:06:04

commit suicide and to want to commit suicide. So it was taken off the market, but it worked. And importantly, it worked in animals and it worked in humans, right? Then there's something else called bariatric surgery, right? So bariatric surgery, when they cut the stomach and, you know, the most successful one is called Roux-en-Y gastric bypass. And in the process of cutting the stomach and, you know, cutting out part of the small intestine, it

01:06:32

They are severing nerves and the nerves that they're severing are the nerves that control the signal between your tongue and your intestine to make endocannabinoids, right?

01:06:46

So basically what you've done is you've given yourself a lobotomy where you can taste these fats, but the signal to make the hunger signal never gets down to your gut and it doesn't make the endocannabinoids, right? So those are two ways. Another way, which has become very popular now, is part of endocannabinoid signaling is the control of things called incretins, right? GLP-1.

01:07:15

is an incretin, semaglutide and liraglutide, right? Ozempic and Gove and I don't remember all the names for them. These very popular weight loss drugs now work, it seems, because they lower the level of HNE in your body, right? And HNE is the obesogen. HNE is the thing that is tricking your body into overproducing fat and storing it all, right? So this

01:07:42

allows you basically to get off this roller cook this carousel wheel where you're going round and round and round and every time you're just storing more fat and storing more fat if you're not storing it then your body has the opportunity to burn it and to lose weight not to sidetrack you too much but one of the other crazy things about McDonald's food I've seen at least some of it where it stays so well preserved even over years and

01:08:11

And I'm curious if you would hypothesize any of that has to do with the seed oils in the food. Well, somebody just, yeah, why would somebody just had a great video that I saw on X. I don't know if I saved it, but they gave this little dog some different foods. They gave it some seed oils. They gave it some butter.

01:08:37

they gave it i think some tallow and then they gave it some margarine and dogs being smarter than people it wouldn't eat seed oils and it wouldn't eat the margarine it was very happy butter in the tallow right linoleic acid is actually a um uh actually kills um microbes right

01:09:01

microbes don't like polyunsaturated fats. Um, they don't bacteria, they don't make them and they don't like to have them around for the most part. Um, so it's actually, there are papers you can find about, um,

01:09:15

a bug called Lactobacillus ruteri, which was this beneficial bacteria that sort of went extinct in the human gut over the 20th century. And they say that it went extinct because of the linoleic acid consumption, right? It got so high, we killed it all off. Because if you look at people in America or in an industrial country, we have a very different microbiome from, say,

01:09:43

Bushmen in Africa who eat everything and never wash their hands. And part of that seems to be because of the consumption of seed oils. And so, yes, it's not surprising that if it's a, you know, if it kills bacteria, that it's not going to go bad because who's going to eat it? Aside from us, the dog won't eat it. It kills the bacteria. So it's just going to sit there.

01:10:13

And there's I've seen lots of videos over the years of people doing that, like putting butter, butter and margarine out on a dish in the yard. And then the ants will come and eat all the butter and leave the margarine sitting right next to it. So, yeah, they seem to be. And I mean, you know what? If I was a smarter person, I would have figured this out when I was in high school. My parents got divorced when I was 18. And, you know, my dad pretty quickly wound up with

01:10:44

a girlfriend and moved in with her and they left me in the house alone for a year, which wasn't as much of a disaster as you might think, but it did mean that I had to cook for myself. And I very quickly figured out that, you know, the corn oil or whatever vegetable oil my mom had left in the house did not agree with me. And so I went out and I would buy olive oil or butter. I never, ever, ever once bought vegetable oil in my own house, you know, but

01:11:13

I would go out and eat at restaurants. And that was enough to make me pretty sick. But even me, just totally clueless about this, I was able to go, “Oh, this stuff doesn't make me feel good and not to eat it.” I just never, until much later in my life, connected to Dots and said, “Oh, that's why. That's why I'm in the hospital again.”

01:11:40

Tethering back to our McDonald's fries, let's bring trans fats in. And the way I understand trans fats, largely they've been banned, but we can still have them in foods if they're below a certain amount. So they're sneaking them in. We don't have to go into that piece. Oh, no, you should. Okay, we can go into it then. But what I'm curious from you is frying in seed oils.

01:12:05

And is that the main reason we're getting trans fats? And then bringing our tallow example back in, are there any trans fats when we're frying in that? So let's say we wanted to do an experiment to see what's worth trans fats, saturated fat, or seed oils, right? So…

01:12:27

We take a bunch of people and we randomize them. One side gets the animal fat and margarine and the other side gets the seed oils, right? Liquid seed oils. They haven't been hydrogenated. They haven't been turned into trans fats. And we're going to measure total mortality and heart disease. Which group does worse? Seed oils? Yes. Only because you're the seed oil guy. I know where you're going here.

01:12:54

Yeah, well, right. I mean, that was a softball. But tell us why. Trans fats people do better. Right. And there are there are a couple of trials that have done that inadvertently. Right. Because they didn't at the time recognize trans fats as much as they do nowadays. There are also two studies in our in humans that unintentionally compared cigarettes to

01:13:19

to seed oils and the cigarette wing did better than the seed oil wing so yeah you can get trans fats they're they can be made under heat but and trans fats are bad for you synthetic trans fats right um dairy fat has trans fats beef has trans fats those are natural trans fats those are very beneficial it's the synthetic ones that you get in margarine and seed oils that are

01:13:47

bad for you, but they're not what's driving this whole thing. Um, right. And we have the RCT evidence to show us that. And the other problem is we have, you know, so anyway, we have lots of epidemiology saying, Oh, trans fats are really bad for you. Well, if you're eating a lot of trans fats, what are you also eating? Right. Trans fats are in hydrogenated

01:14:15

seed oils, right? That's the whole point is that you're hydrogenating, you're turning the polyunsaturated linoleic acid into either a saturated fat or a monounsaturated fat or a trans fat if the transformation doesn't go all the way. So it's impossible to untangle in practice in the epidemiology. Basically, people who eat high trans fats are also going to be the people who are getting a lot of

01:14:44

omega-6 fats from vegetable oils. So no trans fats if we're frying in tallow? I mean, look, any fat

01:14:52

Any fat that is heated is going to undergo some damage, but it's a lot less, right? And tallow has a tiny little amount of linoleic acid. So the load, the amount of toxins that can be produced from the fat is going to be significantly lower. Okay. You said you wanted to get into the hiding of trans fats in foods these days, even though there is a ban.

01:15:17

Oh yeah. So the regulation says if it's less than half a percent, they can say it's zero. Um, I don't know that it really matters, honestly. Um, because if you're avoiding, but seed oils, you're the amount of, excuse me, synthetic trans fats you're going to get is going to be tiny anyway. And, um,

01:15:44

the seed oils is the problematic part or is worse, the worst part than the trans fats, right? So I don't really worry too much about trans fats, except for eating pasture butter, which has lots of natural trans fats, which you definitely want to eat. All right. We've talked a lot about different fats, different oils.

01:16:05

Let's talk about specifically the seed oils we want to be on the alert and avoid. We haven't covered specifically what these are so people know. Right. So, I mean, the shorter thing is what are okay. Sure. Or take it that direction. Right. Coconuts are technically a seed. They're like a weird thing. You know, there's a whole Wikipedia page on are coconuts a nut or a seed or what are they exactly, right? But

01:16:36

So fats, plants being apparently along with microbes and dogs being smarter than humans, plants know that these polyunsaturated fats go bad in higher temperatures. So plants from the tropics produce less of them.

01:16:53

And if you take this, I learned the other day, this is really cool. Soybean oil, the farther south it's grown, has lower amounts of polyunsaturated fats in it. It dynamically alters how much it produces based on the ambient temperature of the area where it's grown, right? So tropical fats, coconut, palm, avocado, those are going to have the lowest amounts of linoleic acid. Olives also…

01:17:22

Although olives vary widely from like 2% from the Spanish variety to up to 20%. And, you know, I don't need a lot of olive oil because of that. So generally the tropical fats are safer, right? The rest of them are going to be, you know, corn, corn oil, soybean oil, rapeseed oil, etc.

01:17:55

cotton seed oil, which I hope nobody eats anymore. Um, you know, basically anything that's anything that comes from a seed except for palm avocado or coconut is going to be a problem. Um,

01:18:11

Canola oil is an interesting one because canola oil has a lot of omega-3 fats in it, the ALA that we discussed before, as does soybean oil. That will prevent you from getting an omega-3 deficiency, which is nice, but it will give you lung cancer if you cook with it. So that's a problem. It turns out the World Health Organization has a nice big 95-page document on how

01:18:39

high temperature frying will cause lung cancer. And they've got an enormous amount of data on humans, mostly Chinese women who never smoked and then came down with lung cancer. And they figured out that it's a direct relationship between how much they cooked with vegetable oils and their likelihood to get lung cancer because the omega-3 fats are

01:19:06

are super susceptible to oxidizing and they oxidize into something that causes, that's a carcinogen. So, and then you get to breathe it while you're cooking it, right? So yes, canola oil, wonderful. Just don't cook with it. While we're talking about omega-3 there and canola oil, you brought up Kate Shanahan earlier and one of her unique pushes in this angle is

01:19:32

polyunsaturated fats is that we need to be aware of the omega-3s as well because they're even more unstable than linoleic acid. So bring that in and talk about how you feel about stability of omega-3s. And again, her angle is a little bit different. Most people are talking about it the way you have been, but she's also saying we got to bring them into the discussion as well. Well, the short chain…

01:20:01

Omega-3 fats, I agree with that. Clearly, you don't want to cook with them. Right. But let's talk about the longer chain omega-3 fats, right? I've not seen…

01:20:22

any evidence of a toxic effect of eating too much omega-3 fat with the caveat that if you drink a lot of alcohol at the same time, that does appear to be a problem, right? Which may explain like Sweden, you know, where they're eating fish and drinking all winter or whatever, you know, the Northern Scandinavian areas where they seem to have a correlation between some problems. I mean, if you look at like

01:20:49

The Eskimos, the Greenlanders, the native Greenlanders, the Japanese, right? There's no evidence of negative outcome from eating. You know, I mean, the Japanese were eating stored fish for most of their history, right? Sushi is relatively recent innovation. And in fact, sushi was originally developed as a way to store fish so you could eat it later. So I've not seen any

01:21:18

Any evidence? If you look at it at the molecular level, the HNE that's produced from omega-6 fats has an analog in the omega-3 world. It's called HHE for hydroxyhexanol. And

01:21:32

HNE is far more toxic than HHE. HHE just doesn't seem to have the toxic effects, right? And another toxin that's produced can be produced from both fats. It's called malon de aldehyde, MDA. MDA seems to be much less toxic. It's primarily made from omega-6 fats, but it also seems to be much less toxic than the HNE that's made from omega-6 fats. So

01:21:59

you know, yeah, I, you know, I would agree, you know, I'm not Norwegian where eating that fish dish is a part of my culture and they should probably continue doing it. But I generally think that you should avoid eating anything that's gone rancid, but I wouldn't really sweat the omega-3 fats. Right. I mean, it's actually, you know, it's funny. Um,

01:22:26

One of the biggest cheerleaders for consuming omega-6 fats is this guy, Dariush Mozaffarian, who's the, he was the Dean of Nutrition at Tufts. I don't know if he is anymore, but he used to be at Harvard where he produced that potato paper showing, you know, he wrote the potato paper showing that potatoes are the most obesogenic food. And he wrote another paper looking at fish and,

01:22:52

And he said that fish are great. Eat lots of fish. The only exception appears to be fried fish. Well, what's different with fried fish? You're not frying fish and fish oil. You're frying it in vegetable oils, of course. But, you know, cooking fish other than frying them in vegetable oils, they seem to be fine. So, yeah, I don't think, you know.

01:23:18

Yeah, don't eat rancid food. That's just a good general principle. I don't really see omega-3 fats being nearly as much of a cause for concern. I think most people, the problem is they're not getting enough omega-3 fats. And I think most of us, people like Dr. Eads, who I think eats an otherwise very healthy diet and was found himself, I think, deficient in omega-3 diets, in omega-3 fats living here in America.

01:23:48

Because of the way we feed our animals, unless you're going out of your way to get enough omega-3, you may not be getting enough omega-3. How do you feel about supplementing with a fish oil? And I've heard mixed things about rancidity. A lot more people saying that the oils are often rancid. So talk about that from both perspectives. If it's a valuable supplement, if rancidity is an issue, share your thoughts. Yeah, I did a…

01:24:20

God, I can't remember his last name. I did a podcast with a guy who wrote a paper for Consumer Reports on rancid fats, rancid fish oils. And rancid fish oils used to be more of a problem. They went through and they analyzed all these fish oils on the market, and they found out that they're generally not much of a problem anymore, except for flavored fish oils. And

01:24:43

Vitamin C, for instance, if you've got a lemon-flavored fish oil, which is apparently a thing, vitamin C can be a pro-oxidant. I mean, it's typically thought of as an antioxidant, but it can be a pro-oxidant. If you want to cause oxidation in an organism, you give it vitamin C and iron, and that kicks off a pro-oxidant reaction in the polyunsaturated fats. So,

01:25:06

You know, I mean, my advice to people when I when I fixed my diet and I started supplementing with omega,

01:25:14

three fats. I got some fermented cod liver oil, which fermented probably had some rancid fats in it, but it tasted okay because I ate it with a spoon. So I would say, don't eat the tablets or if you eat the tablets or the capsules, if you eat the capsules, bite them, right? And if it smells rancid, it's rancid. We're very good at detecting that and don't eat it then, right?

01:25:39

From what I've read, you're best off eating fish. Fish has omega-3 and phospholipids, whereas fish oil only has omega-3 and triglycerides. And in order to best absorb the omega-3 fats, your body needs the phospholipid form, which they filter out of the

01:26:02

the oil form, you know, so fish has both the oils only have the triglycerides and you want both. Um, there is some evidence showing that longer term consumption of, uh, fish oils is problematic, but what I would, you know, I think if you have a deficiency like I did when I fixed my diet and like it seems Dr. Eads did, um,

01:26:28

Um, you know, I went for probably six months where I couldn't get to bed at night without my spoonful of, um, fermented cod liver oil. And then at the end of that six months, I looked at it one day and I was like, Ooh, and I've never had another bit sense. Right. I do eat. I love sardines. I eat sardines, canned sardines all the time packed in water. So you're not getting the sketchy oils. I mean, even the olive oil, who knows if it's really olive oil. Um,

01:26:57

So, yeah, I would definitely say fine if you're fixing your diet, if you have overt deficiency symptoms like itchy skin or potentially, you know, I was going through a period where I had a lot of broken bones, six broken bones over two years. I probably was like borderline osteopenic. And, you know, the fermented cod liver oil not only has the omega-3 fats, but it's got vitamin A and vitamin D in.

01:27:26

And I've never had a problem with a broken bone. You know, that kind of ended at that point. So hopefully that was put away by that supplementation. So you're off the cod liver oil now. Are you taking any other supplements? I'm not a big fan of supplements. I took folate two years ago and I grew an extra tooth in my mouth. That was really bad and super painful. Wow. Talk more about that. Yeah. So my…

01:27:59

mother told me that she thought she had a folate. There's a folate gene mutation where you don't absorb enough folate. And she said that she thought she had it. And, but she couldn't really remember the details. And now she, when she was, when I was young, you know, in my twenties had said to me, you know, I think I have a problem meeting wheat. And I was like, oh, it's mom's, you know, the whole reason I had never, I never had an interest growing up.

01:28:26

up until like my late third my gosh 42 in diet was because of my mother because she was on Weight Watchers she was on the Weight Watchers weight roller coaster you know and she was always doing all these crazy um diet stuff and just turned me off the whole field um

01:28:46

But she did, when I was in my 20s, tell me that she thought she had a problem eating wheat. And I am super gluten intolerant. And I, again, should have listened to her. So this time around, I said, okay, I'm going to listen to mom and I'll try this for a little while. So I got some folate. I have a blog post about it. If anybody wants to go repeat my experiment. So the first thing that happened was…

01:29:11

I was putting my shoe on and I always put my shoes on standing up and, um, I just pulled my back like nothing that has ever happened in my life. Uh, it was brutal. I mean, it was like, felt like somebody stabbed me in the back. Um, and I was like, okay, so, you know, whatever. Um, and then I started getting, I got this ulcer in my mouth and there was a lump under the ulcer. And then, um,

01:29:42

As it progressed, this piece of bone started sticking out of the middle of the ulcer, you know, not where a tooth should be. And then I got another one. And so the only thing I'd really changed was trying to take this folate. So I stopped taking the folate.

01:30:01

Luckily, the bone spur thing, whatever it was, broke off when I was eating some leftover steak one day. And it healed up pretty quickly after that. And I've not had any problems since then. So yes, I'm very much a fan of if you know you're deficient, then fine, take a supplement. But ideally, other than that,

01:30:26

everything should be in the food that you're eating if you've got a decent diet. And I mean, caveats, you know, vitamin D, if you're in the winter, you know, if you don't get a lot of sun, you know, you're African American ancestry and you're not Elon Musk and you're, you know, likely to be vitamin D deficient, fine, take it in the winter. Don't make a dose on it because that can have, so, you know, generally, yeah, I'm not a big fan of supplements. I don't take supplements.

01:30:54

The only thing I take that you could call a supplement is I put collagen in my or gelatin in my coffee in the morning just because I read at some point that that could be beneficial for joint health and seems to help. I haven't had any negative issue. The only problem with with gelatin in your coffee.

01:31:16

Coffee is that if you let it go cold, it turns into coffee jello. You can't drink it anymore. For somebody that feels like they need a top up and they're going to experiment with omega-3s, any thoughts on krill oil? Obviously, you're a fan of fermented cod liver oil. Again, short term. Yeah. Or algae oil because they have these algae oils now that are EPA, DHA. Yeah.

01:31:41

Yeah, I mean, as you know, we were discussing, they're all plant fats, right? So algae is a little green planty creature that lives in the ocean and it produces the omega-3 fats. It's the leaf, right? So that's fine if you want to take that. I mean, smart vegans now recommend that all vegans take…

01:32:03

a DHA supplement like that because they can't produce enough DHA from the alpha-linolenic acid, the short-chain omega-3 fats that you get in something like canola oil. So yeah, that's fine. Krill oil, again, fine. I don't know. I'm going to wager that the oils generally, again, don't have the phospholipids. So you're going to be better off by eating fish than

01:32:29

taking one of these oils and just getting the triglycerides. So whether it be fish or another animal, in general, the fats from animals are good, but animal quality does matter, except for in one instance, which are cows because of the way they digest. So talk about that different levels of linoleic acid in animals, depending on what they're eating.

01:32:56

Yeah, it matters in all animals, even in cows. But to less of an extent, correct? Well, let's get there. So monogastric animals…

01:33:07

which means an animal with a single stomach you me chickens pigs we just we eat the fat we absorb the fat right whatever goes in our mouth is what our body absorbs um so the more seed oils you eat or you feed to your pig or your chicken the higher the level they're going to have in their body and essentially they become just little bags of seed oils running around um

01:33:31

That's a problem. Both pork and chicken has been found to be associated with obesity in humans in epidemiological studies. I haven't seen any RCTs in that.

01:33:43

Um, although some of the physicians I know have, you know, the, my doctor who's in Josh Durham, who's in Boise, Idaho, he treats his patients with a low linoleic, a low omega-6 carnivore diet, right? And he's keeping them away from the concentrated sources of omega-6 fats, which sadly includes bacon. Um, bacon's,

01:34:12

I love bacon too, but it's just a fact of life that the feed conditions for pigs is horrible in this country. I mean, if you can actually get pastured bacon, or pastured pork, it's phenomenal. It doesn't even taste like the same animal. Now, this is something that happens in humans, and I've not ever been able to find out a good answer why, but the more omega-6 fats you eat…

01:34:39

Even if you're eating sufficient omega-3 fats, it lowers the amount of omega-3 fat in your body, right? So this happens to people, and they've shown in people that if you lower the amount of omega-6 fats in the diet and keep the amount of omega-3 fats that they're eating constant, the serum levels of omega-3 will go up. And I think it's because of collateral damage. I don't know for sure. That's my guess. That happens now…

01:35:08

Cows and ruminants like goats have four stomachs, right? They're not monogas. They have four stomachs. And one of those stomachs is basically a microbial reactor that allows them to digest things like cellulose that people can't digest very well. And

01:35:31

In the course of that happening, if you feed them grains, those microbes will alter the fats in the grains, alter the linoleic acid into other fats, one of which is conjugated linoleic acid, which is a beneficial trans fat, by the way. So what happens to cattle is that…

01:35:57

Green finished cattle will have lower levels of omega-3 and higher levels of omega-6, much, much lower than, say, pork or chicken. But the omega-6 goes down, right? So on its own, wild game is a pretty good source of omega-3 fats. And that's where most of us would get omega-3 fats. Because if you look at Africa, most of the continent is…

01:36:23

nowhere near the ocean. They weren't eating seafood. They were getting their omega-3 fats from the ruminants that they were eating. Unfortunately, in America, in our quest to totally destroy our food supply by feeding grains to cattle and dairy, typically industrial dairy, they've got little cows in a barn and they're feeding in corn at the end.

01:36:50

you know, and they don't even get to go outside and eat the grass, they're going to have very low levels of omega-3 and the high levels of omega-6 for a cow, right? Which is, so if that's what you have to eat, and, you know, I'm sure that like, you know, I haven't talked to Dr. Eads about that, but that's probably what got him in trouble with the apparent omega-3 deficiency is he's probably eating industrial products

01:37:16

chicken, pork and beef in his low carb diet and he wasn't getting enough omega-3 from it. So if that's what you're eating, make sure you're getting fish, right? Some kind of fish or fish oil if that's what you insist on doing, although I don't think it's optimal. What he also told me, which I was super upset about, is that the FDA requirement for grass-fed labeling, you can feed them

01:37:46

You can still grain finish them. But if you use half the amount of a normal cow, a grain finished cow, you can call them grass fed and grass finished, even though they're not. And I don't know what the effect on the fats is, but that really pisses me off. So the grass fed, you know, I don't,

01:38:10

That's a problem. So I used to tell people, you know, just eat grass fed beef and grass fed dairy and you'll be fine. But apparently that's a fraud perpetrated by the FDA. So, you know, more of us may need to eat fish than I would have told you two weeks ago. So that's kind of frustrating. And I haven't really looked into that. I haven't found any comparisons of the fats in this bow grass fed beef product.

01:38:38

versus grain finished beef and actual grass fed beef to see what difference it makes. But that's definitely something that folks should be cognizant of. I'm definitely an advocate for myself and others eating the best we can get. But the point I was trying to emphasize is that say you're at a restaurant or at a party with friends, you're going to be better off sticking with beef over pork, chicken, fish,

01:39:08

If we're talking about conventional, because to me, go ahead. Beef and then fish, any kind of fish, even farm raised fish, and then chicken and pork or pork and chicken, however you want to order it. Okay. That's news to me about the fish. Cause I thought the fish when they were farmed could be really high in LA. Well, again, they will be high in LA for a fish, but they will be far lower than a chicken or a pig because,

01:39:37

And they will have a lot more omega-3 than a chicken or a pig. One of the scientists I interviewed, his comment was salmon have a good sense to die if you don't give them enough omega-3 fats. So while they do give them supplemental soybean oil feed, they have to give them a certain amount of omega-3 from fish meal or they die. So even typically…

01:40:05

And there's studies out there looking at it. Typically, even farm-raised salmon, which I generally don't eat unless I'm eating sushi. But it's still going to be better than chicken or pork, for sure. Got it. Important nuance there. Yeah. Let's come back to the plants. We talked about the different seed oils we want to avoid.

01:40:27

What about in their whole food form? If we're having them as nuts and seeds, part of a balanced diet, any issues there? You know, I'm leaning heavily on Mike Eads. He did an awesome post years ago called our nuts paleo talking about just this issue. Right. And he grew up on a farm, I think in Arkansas. And he talked about

01:40:50

harvesting nuts from the trees that grow on the farm. And first off, it was once a year, a couple of weeks. He said it was a huge pain to shell the nuts. His preferred technique was to put them in a canvas bag and drive over them with his pickup truck. So, and then, you know,

01:41:13

Most nuts, with the exception of macadamia nuts, are very high in omega-6 fats. And…

01:41:20

you know, that's fine if you're getting it once a year when they're in season, right? But nuts are a highly processed food. When you go to the supermarket, you don't have to bring a hammer when you get your nuts, right? They're shelled, they're roasted, they're in a little box, you can eat them all year long, you know, that's too much, right? The only ancestral population that

01:41:48

fails a glucose tolerance test are the ones where nuts are a significant portion of their diet, right? And it makes them insulin resistant and they tend to have pot bellies. And when they go off the nut diet, the mongongo nuts, their insulin resistance goes away. So yes, I think nuts, I like nuts.

01:42:11

I eat them once in a while, but if you're making them a staple part of your diet, that's probably a problem. And lots of the folks in this space, they say, you know, one of the things that you should stop eating is nuts. If you're on a low carb diet and you're having trouble losing weight, cut out the nuts. And I, you know, I would totally agree with that. Nuts should not be a staple for people. For somebody just becoming aware of what we're talking about today.

01:42:40

They've been eating a lot of seed oils for quite a period of time. Yeah, their whole life, probably. Exactly. They're going to cut them out at this point. How long does it take for their body to reset and get rid of those? Great question. So it depends. So different tissues in our body turn over at different rates, right?

01:43:07

which means the cells die off, right? I mean, that's what dandruff is, you know, or your skin. But throughout your body, cells come to the end of their life cycle and they get recycled. So that varies from a couple days for your skin cells to 400 years for cartilage.

01:43:34

So yeah, it really depends. I mean, when I fixed my diet, my vision got better pretty quickly. And apparently that's because of the aqueous humor in your eye.

01:43:50

Fats can make it in there based on diet pretty quickly. My susceptibility to sunburn went away in three weeks. That was a major change and something that I was not expecting. The last change occurred seven years later. And that was a condition that I had had as a teenager came back and healed. And that was, again, something that I was not expecting.

01:44:20

In some tissues, like in adipose tissue, which is obviously where most of these fats are going to be, it's about, they think 680 days is the half-life, right? So what that means is if you have

01:44:32

you know, six grams of linoleic acid in your adipose tissue, it's going to take 680 days to get down to three grams, and then another 680 days to get down to a gram and a half. So you're talking about potentially four or five years to get down to an evolutionarily appropriate level in body in that tissue, right? And it's and the other problem. So yes, it's absolutely worth doing

01:45:00

Lots of people worry about the fact that, oh my goodness, it's going to come out of my fat tissue and go into my body. You want that to happen because that's the only way you're going to get rid of it. Otherwise, it's going to stay in your fat tissue. I mean, there's no way to keep it in your fat tissue. But if it stays there, it's still going to go rancid, right? And you're going to get adipose dolorosa or cellulitis, the orange peel skin. That's also from…

01:45:27

oxidized omega-6 fats in the skin. So for all the ladies out there, that's not normal. That's because you're eating a crappy diet, like most Americans. So yeah, it can depend. You know, sad part is for some of us, you know, there are tissues in your body, like your cornea, you know, the lens in your eye that are never going to change. And if you've got

01:45:55

excess polyunsaturated fat there, it makes you more susceptible to cataracts, right? And there's no way to fix that. No diet's going to change that because that just doesn't turn over. And then cartilage, as I said, the half-life of cartilage is hundreds of years. So, you know, can you improve things? Absolutely. But you can't repair the damage that's happened. So you definitely wanted, in my view, do it sooner, sooner rather than later.

01:46:25

Because there is damage happening. And the damage is, some of the damage is irreversible. So it sounds like basically stopping today, waiting is the key here. Anything we can take supplement-wise, lifestyle modalities like saunas, exercise, taking in more healthy fat, basically anything we can do

01:46:50

to accelerate the process of getting these out of the body? Yeah, to accelerate it, the best thing to do is fasted endurance exercise, right? What they call the Maffetone method, heart rate training, right? Where you keep your

01:47:05

Keep yourself in the aerobic fat burning envelope of exercise, which, and then you don't eat. Your body has to burn fat to fuel that, right? I've been doing that for, gosh, years now, and there's just absolutely no downside to it. And that will force your body to burn the fat, and it preferentially burns off the polyunsaturated fats at about two times the rate of the other fats. Foods that you can eat.

01:47:33

beef has a lot of carnosine carnosine is the most effective antioxidant against hne um i mean it even works on it even works as a sunburn protectant if you put carnosine on your skin it'll protect you from sunburn sunburns caused by the hne you know the omega-6 fats in your

01:47:54

severe sunburn is caused by the omega-6 fats in your skin oxidizing into hne and causing tissue damage right and carnosine actually protects against that they've done human trials on that also fish oils will replace the your body preferentially replaces the omega-6 fats with omega-3 fats so if you're supplementing short term with fish oils you're going to be

01:48:20

giving your body the material to replace the omega-6 fats and it happens quite quickly um so let's see what else rosemary contains carnosic acid which is another antioxidant that protects against hne um so yeah eat well eat beef avoid chicken and pork and uh you know also too much um

01:48:48

One of the things, too much carbohydrates I think are not a great thing. In the short-term, carbohydrates, they definitely stimulate the oxidation of omega-6 fats, the negative oxidation.

01:49:03

So I think a ketogenic diet in the short term is probably a really good idea just because it's going to force you to burn off fat as fast as possible and get you replacing the fats that are stored throughout your stored in your body and your adipose tissue and your cell membranes. You mentioned along your seed oil journey, your vision improved, you became more immune to becoming sunburned and you just got into some of the physiology there with H&amp;E.

01:49:30

You mentioned there was something that resolved seven years down the road. Can you talk about what that was? Yeah, that was… So when I was a kid, I had Osgood-Schlatter's, which is what they used to call growing pains. And it's basically, I don't know quite how to describe it, but the symptom was I had a lump at the top of my tibia and the bone wasn't strong enough. I've since heard that it's a selenium deficiency. Now, selenium is another…

01:50:02

uh mineral that protects against um lipid fat oxidation in your body um so i've heard that it's a selenium deficiency i don't know if that's true or not um but you know apparently typically it happens to teenagers it happened to me when i was a teenager it got me out of gym through high school which was great um but then i got into running and i ran for you know

01:50:27

I don't know, 10 years. And then one day I'm running along and my, this lump on my knee started hurting again for the first time since I was a teenager. And I'm like, what the hell's going on here? And I just kept running and ran through it. And, you know, I was, this was something I was very cognizant of because I couldn't lean up. I couldn't kneel on that knee because I had this lump there that it hurt when I kneeled on it. And then,

01:50:54

The lump went away. My body finished healing it up and the lump went away. And now I can kneel on it. You know, I mean, it's the weirdest flipping thing. Definitely. I don't know if it was, I don't know why that happened at the time. I was also eating, I was living in Texas, so I was eating a lot of beef. Maybe it was that, but you know, it did go away. So I'm happy about that.

01:51:21

So we got deep into the obesity connection with these bad fats. You've talked about all these different health issues that you've overcome when you've gotten rid of them. Early on in the conversation, we brought LDL into it, but what other chronic diseases do

01:51:40

and yeah let's go deeper into the ldl piece and other chronic diseases that we're at risk for if these bad oils are coming in through the diet yeah so um there are a couple of common factors in all of the chronic diseases right mitochondrial dysfunction is one of them um inflammation is one of them uh and hne is one of them right

01:52:10

HNE is caused primarily when linoleic acid oxidizes in an uncontrolled fashion in the body. This can happen anywhere, but typically starts in the mitochondria because that's where the fire is. HNE is very good at crossing cell membranes, so it can get out of the mitochondria and into the rest of the body.

01:52:36

It causes damage to the mitochondrial membranes and to the electron transport chain, which is to totally geek out, you know, how your body turns fats or glucose into energy, ATP in your body. It damages multiple components in that chain and can cause you to not be able to produce as much ATP, right? So that gets into, you know, if you have heard of Chris Palmer,

01:53:07

He has this hypothesis that a lot of mental illness is caused by decreased energy production in the body. Well, this is how that can happen. There are probably other ways to have, you know, but this is the low hanging fruit.

01:53:22

Yeah, that was one of the things that changed when I fixed my diet, which was very embarrassing with my mood got much better at work. The guys I worked with who I'd been working with for years pointed out, you used to be a real dick. You're much nicer now. Oh my God, that's horrible.

01:53:42

So, yeah, so decreased energy production via mitochondrial dysfunction. Fibrosis is something that happens throughout the body. HNE directly causes fibrosis. So that can happen in your heart. It can happen in your liver. It can happen, you know, in your cartilage. And the HNE is breaking down your…

01:54:11

your cartilage, and then it's reforming as this fibrotic tissue. All of these things are common in all of these autoimmune diseases, right? Amyloid production happens not only in your brain and Alzheimer's, but it happens in your eyes in a couple types of blindness, and it happens in your pancreas in diabetes. And that can be, you know, directly stimulated by HNA production. So

01:54:39

And in your heart, I mean, that's what heart failure is, is basically fibrosis of the muscle tissue in your heart caused, we think, by HNE. And

01:54:50

There are ways that we can ameliorate these things in animal models. If you stimulate the enzyme that breaks down HNA called aldehyde dehydrogenase, that will ameliorate heart failure or in a lot of these other conditions. There's a population. I mean, the best example of this as a systemic problem is there's a population of people who have a genetic problem.

01:55:18

deficiency in their ability to detoxify HNE, right? They have a mutated version of the aldehyde dehydrogenase enzyme. And those people are, you know, there's a lot of them, because it's basically about half of all people of Chinese ancestry have this mutation. And

01:55:40

And it's the reason that they have, you know, for the Asian flush when they drink alcohol. Right. So the same enzyme detoxifies alcohol as detoxifies seed oils. So what diseases do they get? What are they more likely to get because they can't detoxify seed oils? Heart disease, heart failure, obesity, diabetes, fatty liver disease. Right. All the big ones. Right.

01:56:09

And, you know, they're working on some therapies. They have some therapies that they can use in animals, drugs that stimulate the ALDH enzyme, even though you have the defective version of it. There's a model where they, you know, put the human ALDH, the human mutated ALDH enzyme into rodents, and they get all these diseases. And then if you give them this drug to stimulate production of ALDH, then they all get better. So, yeah.

01:56:37

Hopefully for those people, there's a therapy. Um, amusingly enough, one of my co-hosts in my podcast, although he's Irish, he's one of the rare Europeans who has that mutation and he figured it out in the course of us doing the podcast and he he's Irish, but he doesn't drink because you know,

01:56:56

having this mutation is protective against alcoholism. And he said, Oh, well, that's, you know, my father, he never drank very much, he could never understand why anybody became an alcoholic, because it was so unpleasant. I was like, you've got the mutation. And he interestingly enough, if he eats seed oils, he gets the same flush reaction that he does when he drinks alcohol. So yeah, pretty much, you know, autoimmune diseases. I mean, I would argue that, um,

01:57:27

type 2 diabetes is an autoimmune disease, that cardiovascular disease is an autoimmune disease. I mean, originally they thought that

01:57:35

cardiovascular disease that seed oils was a treatment for it because it lowers cholesterol. And then they did a couple of RCTs and the people who got seed oils were more likely to die of heart disease, not less likely to die of heart disease. So they didn't tell us that. They kept recommending it, right? So then along come the 1980s and

01:58:00

They're trying to figure out why LDL causes heart disease and they discover that it doesn't kick it off, right? The first phase of heart disease is the production of these sick white blood cells called foam cells. And they couldn't produce foam cells from LDL unless the LDL was damaged. And then they figured out that the damage that happens in your body is oxidized omega-6 fats.

01:58:28

Oops. And at the moment, that's the only known cause of heart disease, right? Is these oxidized omega-6 fats. And when you say that, people say, well, that's ridiculous. But heart disease was a rare disease in the United States before we started eating large amounts of seed oils. It wasn't until the 1920s and the 1930s. I think the AHA was founded in the early 1920s.

01:58:57

But the guy who founded it, he said, “When I started medicine, nobody got heart attacks. There were no cardiologists. There was no need for it.” And they'd gone through and done time series of autopsies to try and figure it out. And sure enough, people just weren't getting heart disease back then. And if you look objectively at the evidence,

01:59:20

you know, it's pretty obvious. Well, now in 2020, the European atherosclerosis society publishes something looking at causation and the three causes that they list are all oxidized LDLs, oxidized versions of LDL that, you know, kick off the process and then, right. So everybody who has atherosclerosis, they have

01:59:45

linoleic acid and oxidized linoleic acid in the atherosclerotic plaques. As I said at the beginning of this, that's not surprising because your body preferentially delivers those fats to your heart after you digest it. Your heart gets first dibs on taking up the fats. If you're giving it rancid toxic fats, it shouldn't be surprised that you're getting a bad outcome. We know LA is found in foods very readily.

02:00:12

What is the goal? How much do we want to take that down? Is there a certain percentage we're looking to get within our body of LA and still be thriving? And secondarily, is there an objective test to see where we're at? Well, the latter part, there's a test called the Omega Quant that looks at your different fatty acids. That's probably the best thing to look at if you want to do a test. I've never done it myself. I don't really…

02:00:42

By the time that test came around, I'd already been at this for a while. And I know what I'm eating for the most part. With the caveat about grass-fed beef, which I'm now learning may not have been as beneficial as I thought it was. So I may be getting more linoleic acid and less…

02:01:02

omega-3 than i thought i had been which is kind of annoying um but c'est la vie but i mean it's important to remember as we discussed before there is no way that you're going to become deficient in linoleic acid you can become deficient in omega-3 fats but not in omega-6 fats right um so there's no reason to worry about that and since you're getting it in

02:01:28

All the foods practically that you're eating. I don't know of any exceptions, but I always say caveat that because maybe there is something out there. But any whole foods is going to have some linoleic acid. So the main thing is about avoiding concentrated sources, in my opinion. Right. You want to avoid.

02:01:49

Seed oils, obviously the thing that got me was salad dressings, which are virtually always made. Even if it says creamy, it's made with soybean oil and starch to make it look like cream. It's evil. Um,

02:02:04

I'm the type of guy who I once spent my lunch hour in the salad dressing aisle of Whole Foods going through every single bottle to find. And I found one single bottle out of the whole aisle that was made with olive oil and no seed oil. So that, you know,

02:02:26

So you want to avoid the concentrated sources. Eating out is a concentrated source. Every restaurant is going to cook your food in some form of seed oil. They are not going to use butter. They are not going to use olive oil. They're too expensive. They're going to use the cheapest thing that they can get their hands on. So eating out is a problem. As we've discussed, chicken, eggs, pork are all problematic because they're feeding them all seed oils and they concentrate them, right?

02:02:57

Linoleic acid is like DDT. It bioaccumulates up the food chain. So what should you eat? Ideally grass-fed and pastured dairy. Lamb, goats tend to be… Apparently lamb die when you…

02:03:14

feed them grain. So they're pretty much all pastured. Um, that's a great thing to do. Uh, wild game, if you can get it is great because typically it's, you know, eating whatever it's supposed to be eating out there. Obviously most of the ultra, most of the ultra processed foods are out because they're all going to have some amount of seed oils in it. Even things like bread, it's really quite annoying. Um, seed oils that I will, there was a great, um,

02:03:41

consume their high oleic varieties that are coming out. My favorite bread company is a company called France in FRN TZ in Oregon. And they make their bread and their

02:03:55

I like hamburgers with hamburger buns. They make their hamburger buns with hyaluronic sunflower oil, which has very little linoleic acid in it. The industry knows all this stuff, and they know that their food goes rancid, and they are trying to produce better alternatives, these what they call hyaluronic seed oil varieties that are really low linoleic acid varieties.

02:04:26

So if you see that, that makes it better, right? I, you know, lots of people have constraints on what they can afford. So that's definitely something that's better. Canola oil, while I'm not a big fan of it, is probably one of the better seed oils. I would not cook with it. But, you know, if you're…

02:04:47

budget constrained. Um, or, you know, I've talked to lots of Indians and they're like, you know, what am I going to do? Canola oil is definitely better. Good olive oil is definitely one of the best, uh, vegetable oils. Um, very stable when cooking, even though we've been told that it's not. Um, and you know, then fruit, vegetables, dairy, um, if you do well with dairy, um,

02:05:15

Um, cheese is great. Uh, you know, I can't think of, I'm missing anything, but yeah, it's not, I mean, the biggest problem with trying to eat healthy in this country is just that it's inconvenient, right? I mean, when I started fixing my diet 15 years ago or 14 years ago, whatever it was, it was a huge pain, but now it's much easier because a lot of this stuff has become a bit more mainstream, but you know,

02:05:52

And there's, you know, health food stores don't, you know, health food stores that give you better options. There's, you know, this company that I work with, Zero Acre, has come out with this very low linoleic acid cooking oil, which is a good option for people. You don't need to buy it, but it's nice to have it out there. You know, in the industry, most of the industry's low linoleic acid oils go into the processed food production because it turns out,

02:06:22

Mars, the candy company, right? One of my favorite snacks was peanut M&amp;Ms. And I found out recently that Mars now uses low linoleic acid peanuts to make their peanut M&amp;Ms. Why do they do that? Because the shelf life is 10 times as long because they don't go rancid.

02:06:44

Right. So they're doing it for the wrong reason, but I'm having peanut M's and peanut M&amp;M's again. And I like them. All right, Tucker, we're going to end it there. I appreciate you coming on the show, getting into all this nuance with me. It's been great. I appreciate you. We're going to link up your website, your social media, everything in the show notes. Thank you. Thank you, Jesse. You obviously really did your homework on this topic. It's a great conversation. Thanks for having me on. It's an honor.

02:07:13

Now that you're finished with the episode, head on over to ultimatehealthpodcast.com for detailed show notes, including links to everything we discussed. Thanks for listening and have a great day. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion.

02:07:44

And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads. Go to LibsynAds.com. That's L-I-B-S-Y-N ads.com today.

</markdown>

D:2025.07.09<markdown>

今天的内容将围绕一个核心问题展开：在过去大约一百年的时间里，是什么让人们变得肥胖？曾经，马戏团里的“胖女人”是罕见的存在，而如今，77%的美国人超重或肥胖。如果罗伯特·肯尼迪在飞机上被唐纳德·特朗普绑架并强迫喂食薯条，他不会有太大问题，因为这只是偶尔发生。但如果人们每天都摄入这些腐败的脂肪和超加工食品，身体就会像一个排水口被堵住的浴缸，不断注水最终会溢出，这正是肥胖流行的原因。

我曾在全食超市的沙拉酱货架前花了一个午餐时间，逐瓶查看，结果在整个货架上只找到一瓶用橄榄油制作且不含种子油的沙拉酱。此外，还有两项研究在无意中将香烟与种子油进行了对比，结果发现香烟组的情况比种子油组更好。

塔克被问及种子油为何具有毒性，他首先指出，种子油极易腐败，而腐败的脂肪是有毒的，应避免食用。在人们摄入的所有脂肪中，种子油最容易腐败并产生毒性，而这种毒性正是慢性疾病流行的原因。

关于种子油的腐败是在哪个加工阶段发生的问题，塔克表示，腐败在整个过程中都可能发生。他提到一个有趣的观点，即种子油中含有的腐败脂肪分子数量是低密度脂蛋白（LDL）颗粒的400倍。要知道，正常的LDL颗粒是完全无害的，以此为基准，不难想象摄入种子油的危害。

当人们摄入植物油等种子油时，身体会将其吸收到乳糜微粒中，乳糜微粒类似于LDL颗粒的一种脂蛋白，随后将这些脂肪送入血液。而这些脂肪首先会被输送到心脏，因为心脏喜欢以脂肪为燃料。显然，让大量腐败、有毒的脂肪直接进入心脏并非理想情况。之后，在心脏和动脉有机会吸收一部分后，这些脂肪才会输送到身体其他部位被吸收。过一段时间，肝脏会有机会对其进行解毒，然后再通过LDL颗粒或转化为LDL颗粒的BLDL将其送回体内。

从分子层面来看，20世纪50年代的一篇论文揭示了辐射中毒的原因，即体内的多不饱和脂肪被氧化后产生毒性，辐射中毒实际上相当于多不饱和脂肪中毒。研究人员给啮齿动物注射种子油中的主要脂肪分子——亚油酸的腐败形式（亚油酸氢过氧化物），结果导致啮齿动物死亡。自20世纪50年代起，人们就已经明确了解这些物质的毒性。

还有一篇论文提到，有人尝试将植物油用作癌症治疗手段，理论是给动物喂食大量植物油，然后用辐射氧化肿瘤中的植物油，从而杀死肿瘤。但这对身体的影响可想而知。

腐败的脂肪会引发连锁反应，导致其他脂肪也发生腐败，还会损害蛋白质和DNA。比如，人们可能会对自身DNA产生过敏反应，这并非真正对DNA过敏，而是腐败的脂肪与DNA结合，身体将这些腐败脂肪视为细菌感染的标志，就像毒藤引起的皮疹一样（毒藤皮疹也是由腐败的多不饱和脂肪引起），身体会试图清除“感染”，但实际上并没有细菌或病毒，而是在攻击自身，这种情况下就是攻击DNA，这无疑是很糟糕的。

当摄入脂肪后，脂肪分子主要有两条代谢路径。一条是作为燃料被氧化分解，多不饱和脂肪会被优先用作燃料，这和身体处理乙醇、葡萄糖的方式类似，因为它们具有一定毒性，身体会尽快将其清除，其中一种方式就是氧化供能。

另一条路径是，若脂肪不被用作燃料，则会以多种方式整合到身体组织中。人体的每个细胞膜主要由脂肪构成，这些脂肪通过胆碱分子包装在一起，形成每个细胞的细胞壁，即磷脂。磷脂通常由一种饱和脂肪和一种不饱和脂肪组成（不同于甘油三酯，甘油三酯是三个脂肪分子连接在甘油骨架上，而磷脂是两个脂肪分子连接在胆碱骨架上）。

人体非常需要饱和脂肪，身体会自行合成所需的全部饱和脂肪，因为每个细胞膜的每个分子都需要它，第一个脂肪分子通常都是饱和脂肪，第二个则是单不饱和或多不饱和脂肪。即使完全不摄入饱和脂肪，身体也会合成所需的量。单不饱和脂肪也是身体偏好在第二个位置使用的，如果不摄入，身体会先从碳水化合物合成饱和脂肪，再从饱和脂肪合成单不饱和脂肪。

但人体无法合成多不饱和脂肪，而细胞正常功能又需要一定量的多不饱和脂肪。例如，细胞膜上的化学泵依靠构成膜的脂肪的分子能量来工作，若将多不饱和脂肪含量高的动物的泵放入多不饱和脂肪含量低的动物的细胞膜中，泵的运行速度会变慢。在多不饱和脂肪缺乏的环境中生长的生物，会出现智商低、精神问题、眼睛发育问题等。

人体需要一定比例的多不饱和脂肪来构成细胞膜，但并不控制具体哪种饱和脂肪进入，这取决于饮食。

多不饱和脂肪分为欧米伽-6和欧米伽-3两种。欧米伽-6脂肪通常来自环境中的种子，欧米伽-3脂肪通常来自环境中的叶子。哺乳动物无法自行合成多不饱和脂肪，必须通过饮食获取，比如吃以叶子或种子为食的生物。

在正常的饮食平衡下，欧米伽-6和欧米伽-3的比例大致为1:1或2:1。它们在体内有多种作用，比如在免疫系统中，细胞膜中储存的多不饱和脂肪会转化为各种信号分子，欧米伽-6信号分子倾向于促炎，欧米伽-3则倾向于抗炎（更准确地说是促进炎症消退）。

在饥饿信号方面，当人感到饥饿时，身体会从肠道内壁提取欧米伽-6脂肪，将其转化为内源性大麻素，向大脑传递饥饿信号，而欧米伽-3脂肪没有这种作用。如果欧米伽-6过多而欧米伽-3不足，就会持续收到饥饿信号，导致过量进食。

在视觉和神经传递方面，摄入更多欧米伽-3脂肪后，细胞膜中的欧米伽-3更活跃，能更好地对光信号做出反应，更有效地将信号传递到大脑，从而影响视力和神经传递。

现代美国人的饮食中，欧米伽-3脂肪的摄入量远低于身体所需，导致身体容易引发炎症却难以消退。

欧米伽-6和欧米伽-3都有其从植物来源到长链脂肪的转化路径。欧米伽-6从植物中的亚油酸转化为花生四烯酸等长链脂肪，欧米伽-3从植物中的α-亚麻酸转化为EPA、DHA等长链脂肪。但人体从植物来源合成所需的长链欧米伽-3脂肪的能力很差，因为欧米伽-6会占据转化路径，导致欧米伽-6脂肪（如花生四烯酸）过量，而欧米伽-3脂肪不足，使得细胞膜中欧米伽-6过多、欧米伽-3过少。

花生四烯酸是必需的，人体自身无法合成，对生命至关重要，在感染、受伤时会被用来刺激炎症反应，对大脑发育也很重要。但人体对其有严格的调节，只有在需要时才会合成。然而，当饮食中含有大量亚油酸等前体物质时，身体会合成过多花生四烯酸，加上欧米伽-3不足，就会导致细胞膜中花生四烯酸过多，引发过度炎症。

健康的细胞膜通常由饱和脂肪和多不饱和脂肪组成。在理想情况下，多不饱和脂肪包括DHA、EPA、ALA、花生四烯酸和亚油酸等，但亚油酸在适量时是正常的，过量或腐败时才会带来问题。

关于亚油酸是否必需，长期以来人们认为它是必需的，但波士顿儿童医院的最新研究表明，啮齿动物在仅摄入长链欧米伽-6和欧米伽-3脂肪、不摄入短链欧米伽-6和欧米伽-3脂肪的情况下，经过10代依然状况良好。这说明长链脂肪才是必需的，短链脂肪是条件性必需的，即在无法获取长链脂肪时，身体可利用短链脂肪来合成。

在实际生活中，除了实验室或在医生照料下，人们很少会出现必需脂肪酸缺乏的情况。比如，皮肤问题可能是欧米伽-3长链脂肪酸缺乏的表现之一，补充后可得到改善。

线粒体是细胞的能量生产中心，其膜中的一种特殊脂肪——心磷脂（仅存在于细菌和线粒体中）对线粒体功能至关重要。亚油酸含量高的饮食会改变线粒体膜中的心磷脂组成。

线粒体的能量产生过程会产生大量能量，环境类似高温高压，使得其中的脂肪容易氧化腐败。大脑为避免氧化损伤，线粒体中几乎不含亚油酸；心脏为高效产生能量，对亚油酸有一定偏好，但过量也会带来问题。

当亚油酸在 mitochondria 中氧化腐败，会产生如HNE（一种氧化的亚油酸分子）等有毒物质，损害线粒体膜、蛋白质和DNA，导致线粒体功能异常。这会触发细胞的应对机制，如线粒体自噬（清除受损线粒体）、细胞自噬（细胞程序性死亡），若损伤过于严重，细胞会坏死，释放内容物到体内。

抗磷脂综合征就是一种自身免疫性疾病，身体会攻击坏死细胞释放的氧化心磷脂，因为这些氧化脂质被视为细菌感染的信号，而身体无法分辨是自身细胞还是外来感染。

塔克认为，如今的肥胖问题在很大程度上源于种子油。历史上也有肥胖案例，但极为罕见，而现在肥胖变得普遍，种子油是重要原因。

以薯条为例，哈佛大学2011年的研究表明薯条是最易导致肥胖的食物，其次是薯片，远高于冰淇淋和碳水化合物等。薯条与煮土豆的区别在于薯条含有种子油。

当人们食用薯条时，其中的亚油酸和油酸会刺激食欲，而油酸会让身体产生OEA（一种饱腹信号物质）。但种子油中的亚油酸过多，会使身体无法产生饱腹信号，同时，高温油炸使亚油酸腐败产生HNE，HNE会改变细胞储存能量的方式，使身体优先将碳水化合物转化为脂肪储存起来。

偶尔摄入这样的食物不会有太大问题，但美国人每天摄入的垃圾食品中充满氧化的种子油，这些食物在货架上存放数月，脂肪会逐渐腐败。值得注意的是，动物不会食用腐败的欧米伽-3脂肪（如腐败的鱼），但会食用腐败的欧米伽-6脂肪，人类也对腐败的欧米伽-6脂肪的味道有一定接受度，这可能与人类习惯食用熟食有关。

有药物如雷莫芦单抗，可阻断身体对内源性大麻素的吸收，从而预防肥胖，但因可能导致自杀倾向而退市。减肥手术（如 Roux-en-Y 胃旁路术）通过切断控制内源性大麻素信号的神经，减少饥饿信号。

如今流行的减肥药物（如司美格鲁肽等）似乎通过降低体内HNE水平发挥作用，HNE是一种导致身体过量产脂和储脂的物质，降低其水平可打破肥胖的恶性循环。

此外，麦当劳等快餐食品不易变质，也与种子油能抑制细菌生长有关，这也使得这些食物中的脂肪更易在体内积累。

反式脂肪分为天然和人工合成两种，天然反式脂肪（如乳制品和牛肉中的）有益，人工合成反式脂肪（如人造黄油和种子油中）有害，但并非导致肥胖等问题的主要因素。

有研究无意中将香烟与种子油对比，发现香烟组的情况比种子油组更好。高温会产生反式脂肪，但种子油本身的危害更大。

热带植物的油脂（如椰子油、棕榈油、牛油果油）亚油酸含量较低，相对安全；橄榄油烟点和亚油酸含量因品种差异较大。

而玉米油、大豆油、菜籽油、棉籽油等来自温带种子的油脂，亚油酸含量较高，存在健康风险。菜籽油和大豆油虽含一定欧米伽-3脂肪（ALA），可预防欧米伽-3缺乏，但高温烹饪会产生致癌物，导致肺癌等问题。

从吸收效果看，吃鱼比服用鱼油补充剂更好，因为鱼中的欧米伽-3与磷脂结合，更易被人体吸收，而鱼油补充剂中的欧米伽-3多为甘油三酯形式。

服用鱼油补充剂时，要注意其是否腐败，可通过气味和味道判断，若有腐败气味则不宜服用。短期补充鱼油可帮助弥补欧米伽-3缺乏，但长期大量服用可能存在问题。

磷虾油、海藻油等也是欧米伽-3的来源，海藻油适合素食者补充DHA，但同样，食物来源的欧米伽-3更为推荐。

单胃动物（如人、鸡、猪）的脂肪组成受饮食影响大，摄入种子油越多，体内脂肪中种子油成分越高，猪肉和鸡肉与人类肥胖存在流行病学关联。

反刍动物（如牛、羊、山羊）有特殊的消化系统，能将饲料中的脂肪转化，其脂肪受饮食影响相对较小，但现代饲料中谷物过多，也会使反刍动物脂肪中欧米伽-6含量升高、欧米伽-3含量降低。

野生肉类通常是欧米伽-3的良好来源，若食用工业养殖的畜禽肉，需注意补充鱼类等以获取足够欧米伽-3。

坚果含有较高的欧米伽-6脂肪，在适量且当季食用时没问题，但超市中的坚果经过加工，可全年食用，易导致摄入过量，可能引起胰岛素抵抗和肥胖等问题。在低碳水饮食中若减肥困难，减少坚果摄入可能有帮助。

身体不同组织的细胞更新速度不同，摆脱种子油影响的时间也不同，从几天到数百年不等。

要加速这一过程，空腹耐力运动（如马费通训练法）可促使身体燃烧脂肪，且优先燃烧多不饱和脂肪，速度约为其他脂肪的两倍。

食用牛肉（含肌肽，能有效对抗HNE）、短期补充鱼油（可替代欧米伽-6脂肪）、摄入含迷迭香酸的迷迭香等，都有助于减少种子油的影响。短期采用生酮饮食，可促使身体燃烧脂肪，加速替换体内储存的不良脂肪。过多碳水会刺激欧米伽-6脂肪的氧化，应注意控制。

种子油中的亚油酸氧化产生的HNE等物质，会导致线粒体功能障碍，减少能量产生，影响情绪，还会引发纤维化，在心脏、肝脏、软骨等部位造成损伤，与多种慢性疾病相关。

HNE还会刺激淀粉样蛋白生成，与阿尔茨海默病、眼盲、糖尿病等有关。有遗传缺陷导致无法有效解毒HNE的人群（如部分华裔），更易患心脏病、肥胖、糖尿病等疾病。

心血管疾病的发生与氧化的欧米伽-6脂肪有关，氧化的LDL是引发心脏病的原因，而氧化的欧米伽-6脂肪是导致LDL氧化的因素。在20世纪之前，心脏病较为罕见，随着种子油的大量使用，心脏病发病率上升。

可通过Omega Quant检测体内不同脂肪酸的水平，了解自身亚油酸和欧米伽-3的状况。

由于几乎所有食物都含有亚油酸，无需担心亚油酸缺乏，关键是避免摄入浓缩来源的亚油酸，如种子油、加工食品、餐厅食物（多使用种子油烹饪）、鸡肉和猪肉（饲料含种子油，导致其脂肪中亚油酸含量高）等。

相对而言，牛肉（尤其是草饲牛肉）、羊肉、山羊、野生动物的肉中亚油酸含量较低，是较好的选择。同时，一些高油酸品种的种子油（如高油酸葵花籽油）亚油酸含量低，可作为替代选择。

总之，减少种子油摄入，选择健康的脂肪来源，对身体健康至关重要，且应尽早行动，因为种子油造成的部分损伤是不可逆的。

</markdown>

D:2025.07.09<markdown>

籽油：慢性疾病和肥胖的罪魁祸首

@Tucker Goodrich : 我认为籽油是导致慢性疾病和肥胖流行的主要原因。这些油非常容易腐臭，并且在加工、储存和烹饪过程中都会发生。腐臭的脂肪分子会损害细胞膜、蛋白质和 DNA，导致炎症、线粒体功能障碍和自身免疫反应。现代饮食中过量摄入籽油会导致身体持续发出储存脂肪的信号，最终导致肥胖。我建议避免食用籽油，并选择更健康的脂肪来源，如橄榄油、椰子油和草饲动物脂肪。通过调整饮食，我可以改善视力，减轻晒伤，甚至治愈了童年时期的疾病。我认为，我们应该尽早采取行动，避免籽油对身体造成的不可逆转的损害。 Tucker Goodrich: 我认为，过去一百年左右的时间里，是什么让每个人都变胖了。为什么我们从马戏团里的胖女人变成了 77% 的美国人超重或肥胖？每天食用这些腐臭脂肪和超加工食品会导致身体持续发出储存脂肪的信号，最终导致肥胖。这就像往浴缸里倒水，但排水口总是堵住的，最终水会溢出来。这就是导致我们肥胖流行的原因。我曾经花一个午休时间在全食超市的沙拉酱区，检查每一瓶沙拉酱，结果发现整个区只有一瓶是用橄榄油做的，没有籽油。还有两项研究无意中将香烟与籽油进行了比较，结果香烟组的表现优于籽油组。

分享图

我最近与华尔街科技专家兼公民科学家Tucker Goodrich进行了一次深入的访谈，他主要通过戒除饮食中的籽油和小麦来治愈自身的疾病。这次对话让我对籽油的潜在危害有了更深刻的认识，也让我重新思考了现代饮食与慢性疾病和肥胖流行之间的关系。

Goodrich认为，籽油是导致慢性疾病和肥胖流行的主要原因。他解释说，籽油极易腐败，这种腐败过程贯穿于生产、储存和烹饪的各个环节。腐败的脂肪分子并非简单的“变质”，而是会产生一系列毒性物质。这些物质会攻击细胞膜、蛋白质和DNA，引发炎症反应，损害线粒体功能，甚至诱发自身免疫反应。

在细胞层面，这种损害是如何发生的？ Goodrich解释道，摄入的脂肪会走两条路径：一是作为燃料被氧化，其中多不饱和脂肪（PUFA）优先被用作燃料；二是整合到身体组织中，例如细胞膜。细胞膜主要由饱和脂肪和不饱和脂肪组成，而籽油中的PUFA会取代健康的PUFA，形成有毒的细胞膜结构。

他特别强调了**ω-6脂肪酸（例如亚油酸）**的危害。虽然ω-6脂肪酸是必需脂肪酸，但现代饮食中ω-6脂肪酸的摄入量远超身体需求，且容易氧化成有毒物质，例如4-羟基壬烯醛（HNE）。HNE会损害线粒体，导致能量产生减少，并引发炎症和纤维化。这与多种慢性疾病，包括心脏病、肥胖、糖尿病、脂肪肝和神经退行性疾病（如阿尔茨海默病和帕金森病）密切相关。

Goodrich还指出，籽油中的过量ω-6脂肪酸会干扰身体的饱腹感信号。身体会优先利用ω-6脂肪酸，但同时却无法产生足够的油酸（oleic acid）来生成油酰乙醇胺（OEA），OEA是重要的饱腹信号分子。这导致人们持续感到饥饿，摄入过多的食物，最终导致肥胖。

关于ω-3脂肪酸，Goodrich的观点则相对温和。 他认为，虽然短链ω-3脂肪酸也容易氧化，但长链ω-3脂肪酸（如EPA和DHA）的毒性远低于ω-6脂肪酸。他建议，人们应该关注ω-3脂肪酸的摄入量，并优先选择富含ω-3脂肪酸的食物来源，例如深海鱼类。

Goodrich分享了他自身的经验：通过戒除籽油，他的视力得到了改善，对阳光的敏感度降低，甚至治愈了儿时患有的奥斯古德-施拉特病（Osgood-Schlatter disease）。这有力地支持了他的观点。

那么，如何减少籽油的摄入呢？ Goodrich建议：

• 避免食用含有籽油的加工食品: 仔细阅读食品标签，选择不含玉米油、大豆油、菜籽油等籽油的食品。
• 选择健康的脂肪来源: 优先选择橄榄油、椰子油、牛油、以及草饲动物的脂肪。
• 减少在外就餐: 餐厅烹饪通常使用廉价的籽油。
• 选择优质的肉类: 草饲动物的肉类ω-6脂肪酸含量较低，ω-3脂肪酸含量较高。
• 适量食用坚果和种子: 不要将坚果和种子作为饮食的主要组成部分。

Goodrich强调，即使停止摄入籽油，身体的“重置”过程也需要时间，可能需要数年才能完全清除体内积累的毒性物质。但他同时鼓励人们尽早采取行动，避免籽油对身体造成不可逆转的损害。

最后，Goodrich建议进行Omega Quant测试来评估体内脂肪酸的比例。 虽然没有明确的理想ω-6/ω-3比例，但减少ω-6脂肪酸的摄入，特别是避免食用富含籽油的食品，对于维护健康至关重要。

总而言之，Goodrich的观点为我们理解现代饮食与慢性疾病之间的关系提供了新的视角。他的研究和个人经验都表明，减少籽油的摄入，选择更健康的脂肪来源，对于预防和改善慢性疾病和肥胖至关重要。 我们应该认真对待这一问题，并积极调整自己的饮食习惯。

</markdown>

D:2025.07.09

<markdown> </markdown>

讨论列表 AKP讨论 查看原帖及回帖