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与精神病学家Frank Anderson博士探讨了创伤的本质及其对个人生活和关系的影响。Anderson博士是一位创伤领域专家，曾在哈佛大学完成精神病学住院医师培训，并在创伤治疗方面有三十多年的经验。他分享了自己的个人经历、创伤的定义、其在身体和心理上的表现，以及如何通过治疗和自我觉察实现愈合。

对话从Anderson的个人背景开始。他以幽默的口吻提到从未想过会写一本回忆录，但自己的故事确实引人入胜。Anderson在六岁时因在表亲家玩芭比娃娃被“抓到”，被送往为期六年的转化治疗，这让他从小就觉得自己“错了”“有问题”，需要变成别人才能被爱。这种经历塑造了他早年生活的轨迹，驱动他追求卓越以赢得父亲的认可。他通过努力获得直A成绩，最终进入哈佛大学攻读精神病学住院医师培训。然而，他意识到自己在帮助他人的同时，其实是在试图拯救自己，因为他长期与自己的真实身份断连，受到童年“脑洗”影响，学会隐藏真实自我以换取接纳。

在哈佛期间，Anderson接触到大量有严重精神疾病和创伤史的患者（如无家可归者），这激活了他压抑的个人创伤记忆。

他重新开始接受心理治疗，逐渐挖掘童年的创伤经历，直到32岁才真正面对自己的性取向，意识到自己是同性恋。此前，他曾与女性结婚，过着“正确”的生活，但内心极度疏离。Anderson描述32岁时“出柜”像重新开始人生，感觉自己像一个青少年困在32岁的身体里，试图探索“我是谁”。这一过程既解放又充满挑战，因为他在哈佛的学术圈中公开同性恋身份导致部分社区排斥，失去了许多朋友。他形容自己像“陌生土地上的陌生人”，需要重新学习如何在新的身份和社区中生活。

Anderson分享了出柜后情感上的觉醒。此前，他与女性的性关系是机械的，毫无情感；而与男性建立关系后，他第一次体验到性与情感的结合，这让他意识到“原来这就是爱”。这一转变让他开始感受生活，打破了过去全靠理智压抑情感的状态。然而，适应新身份需要数年，他需要重新定位自己与异性恋和同性恋社群的关系。

Sean询问Anderson如何定义创伤，是否因人而异。Anderson解释，创伤是发生在你身上的事件，而非你的身份。它的影响取决于事件的频率、强度和持续时间。他强调，创伤的关键在于人们往往将其内化，觉得自己“有问题”或“应受责罚”。例如，Anderson小时候因玩芭比娃娃被责骂，内化了“我是坏男孩”的信念。创伤的另一个重要方面是个人对其的反应，如愤怒、压抑、酗酒或过度运动，这些行为往往是未解决创伤的表现。

Anderson指出，创伤的感知因文化和个人气质而异。例如，Sean提到自己在韩国成长时被老师和父母体罚，但因普遍性而不认为这是创伤。Anderson回应，这种经历确实是创伤，但文化语境可能让个体难以识别其影响，尤其是敏感的人可能因此感到困惑，觉得自己“反应过度”。他分享了一项在哈佛的研究，比较了郊区富裕家庭的孩子和纽约布朗克斯帮派孩子的创伤反应。帮派孩子因创伤被“正常化”（如暴力常见），表现出较少的创伤后应激障碍（PTSD），而富裕家庭的孩子因缺乏社群支持，创伤反应更严重。这表明文化和社群对创伤的定义和处理方式有深远影响。

Sean询问是否需要“更厚的皮肤”来应对创伤，以避免被小事（如职场欺凌）影响。Anderson坚决反对，称压抑创伤会导致长期问题，如功能失调行为（酗酒、过度工作、无法维持关系）。他以自己32年的压抑经历为例，说明压抑看似暂时有效，但最终会以破坏性方式爆发。他强调，愈合创伤是可能的，通过释放创伤能量，个体可以减轻心理和生理负担，活得更年轻、更健康。他以自己61岁的状态为例，称因持续愈合创伤，他看起来远比同龄人年轻，身体也不再承载未处理的痛苦。

Anderson进一步解释，创伤若不处理，会在身体上表现出来。他引用Bessel van der Kolk的《身体会记录创伤》（The Body Keeps the Score）和Gabor Maté的观点，指出未愈合的创伤可能导致身体疾病，如哮喘、背痛、肠易激综合征或癌症。他举例，自己每次压抑真实想法时会触发哮喘，而背痛可能是身体表达情感创伤的一种方式，因面对身体疼痛比情感疼痛更容易。研究表明，PTSD患者的杏仁核（恐惧中枢）过度活跃，导致无法区分过去创伤与当前现实。例如，性侵幸存者可能在安全关系中仍感到恐惧，因身体仍以过去模式反应。

在人际关系中，未愈合的创伤可能导致吸引“有毒”的人或关系。Anderson解释，吸引力往往是“创伤救赎”（，人们无意识地被与自己创伤相似但适应方式相反的人吸引。例如，他作为一个外向者，吸引了内向的伴侣，两人都有被忽视的创伤史，但通过不同方式应对（他通过高成就掩盖创伤，对方通过退缩）。这种吸引力源于希望通过关系修复童年创伤，但往往导致失望，因伴侣无法扮演父母的角色。他提到，女性被“坏男孩”吸引可能是童年试图“修复”父亲的延续，而未愈合的忽视创伤可能让人追逐不回应爱的人，以重演并试图改变童年被忽视的经历。

Sean提到一个朋友的案例，一方接受治疗而另一方拒绝，导致离婚。Anderson确认这是常见现象，因治疗加速了个体成长，改变了关系平衡。如果一方拒绝成长，关系可能破裂。他分享了自己25年的婚姻经历，提到因孩子（一个有特殊需求）而分工不同，对方长期在家导致关系失衡。通过夫妻治疗和个人治疗，他们共同成长，避免了分裂。Anderson建议夫妻治疗可帮助双方同步成长，但若一方拒绝治疗，通常是关系破裂的预警。

关于愈合创伤，Anderson提出“四T”框架，基于内部家庭系统（IFS）理论：

1. 感谢（Thank）：感激创伤反应（如酗酒、回避）试图保护你。
2. 获取智慧（Tap into wisdom）：连接内在的“自我能量”（self-energy），即直觉和内在智慧，因创伤常切断这一连接。
3. 见证与转化（Transform）：让持有创伤的部分讲述故事，并提供修复性体验（如被爱、被看见），以释放创伤能量。
4. 夺回力量（Take back power）：通过释放创伤，重新掌控生活。

他强调，觉察是第一步，但需通过治疗（如EMDR、身体中心疗法、IFS）或结构化项目深入工作。Anderson正在开发一个结合心理治疗、神经科学和教练的创伤愈合项目，旨在为无法负担传统治疗的人提供可负担的解决方案。此外，他通过新成立的“创伤知情媒体”（Trauma Informed Media）公司，利用故事叙述（如电视剧《Ted Lasso》《怪奇物语》）提高公众对创伤的觉察，以非侵入性方式帮助人们认识和处理创伤。

对于AI在心理健康领域的应用（如ChatGPT作为“治疗”工具），Anderson持谨慎乐观态度。他认为AI可提高心理健康服务的可及性，但缺乏监管可能导致误导或伤害，因网上信息并非都准确。他强调，公众需培养辨别能力，以避免因错误方法重新创伤化。他计划通过自己的项目提供可靠的创伤愈合资源，尤其针对资源匮乏的群体。

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引言与个人背景介绍

• 播客开始时，主持人提到与Dr. Frank Anderson（精神科医生、创伤专家）在录制前谈论了他作为父亲在管理儿子时遇到的日常挑战与挣扎，以及这与他自己成长经历的巨大差异。
• 主持人邀请Dr. Anderson分享他作为精神科医生处理创伤的经历，以及他如何走到今天这一步，特别是与他当前育儿挑战的对比。

Dr. Anderson的个人创伤与成长经历

1. 早年经历与“扭转治疗”:

   * Dr. Anderson坦诚分享了他写回忆录的初衷（起初认为没人会对他的人生故事感兴趣）。

   * 他的人生轨迹很早就被打上了烙印：6岁时因在表亲家地下室玩芭比娃娃被“抓到”，在当时是严重的“错误”，随后接受了长达6年的“扭转治疗”（Conversion Therapy）。

   * 这段经历深刻地向他灌输了“你是个错误的人”、“你不对劲”、“你是有缺陷的”、“你必须成为别人才能被爱”的观念。这影响了他人生前32年的轨迹。

2. 追求卓越以获得父爱:

   * 为了得到父亲的爱，他拼命追求卓越，不断拿A。这种适应性行为（虽然初衷扭曲）帮助他进入哈佛大学接受精神病学住院医师培训。

3. 成为精神科医生与自我救赎:

   * 他成为哈佛的精神科医生，本以为是在帮助他人，但后来意识到，这其实是他潜意识中试图拯救自己的方式。

   * 由于早年的经历，他与自己的内在感受严重脱节，几乎是被“洗脑”成要符合他人期望的样子。

4. 接触患者创伤，引发自身创伤:

   * 在精神科工作中，接触到大量遭受巨大痛苦的患者（尤其是那些无家可归、无保险的慢性精神病患者），他发现几乎每个人都有严重的创伤史。

   * 与这些患者的交流开始触及并唤醒了他自己被压抑的创伤记忆，使他感到不堪重负，因为这与他的经历太近了。

5. 重返治疗，面对自身创伤:

   * 他再次（这次是自愿）接受心理治疗，开始挖掘和处理多年来压抑的创伤。

   * 他意识到，必须先处理自己的个人创伤史，才能真正连接到自己的身份认同（“我是谁”）。他的真实自我被所承受的创伤深深掩埋。

6. 32岁的“重生”与出柜:

   * 直到32岁，他才真正意识到过去的自己并非真实的他。他选择了出柜（此前他已与一位女性结婚，努力扮演着“正确”的角色）。

   * 他形容自己的生活仿佛在32岁才真正开始，需要重新探索“我是谁”。这种感觉就像电影里大人和孩子互换身体，他是一个拥有32岁身体的青少年，在探索自我，而周围的人大多已成家立业。

   * 虽然身边的人（如兄弟、一些朋友）还在，但在当时的哈佛环境，作为公开的同性恋者并不被完全接受，他失去了一部分社群。

7. 探索新世界与感受的解放:

   * 出柜后，他感到既自由又迷茫，像“身处异乡的陌生人”，需要学习同性恋者的生活方式和社交圈。

   * 最大的解放是能够感受到情绪。他之前极度理性，压抑情感（在之前的10年治疗中从未哭过）。出柜让他体验到真实的情感连接，包括性爱中伴随的情感（与之前和女性的机械式性行为形成对比）。

   * 他意识到“爱”原来是这样一种深刻的体验。

8. 压抑与突破:

   * 在出柜前，他确实有过对男性的感觉，但会迅速压制下去（“那是错的、坏的”）。

   * 在婚姻后期，他开始秘密地与男性发生关系，这让他意识到自己不能再活在谎言中，必须面对真实的自我，尽管他预料到这可能让他失去保守的（中西部）家庭。对他而言，这是一个艰难的选择：“要么拥有家庭，要么拥有自我”。

定义与理解创伤

1. 创伤的普遍性与认知的差异:

   * 如今人们对“创伤”有了更多认识，但存在认知偏差：老一辈可能否认（认为承认创伤是软弱），年轻一代可能过度使用（打个喷嚏也算创伤）。

   * Dr. Anderson强调区分创伤的频率、强度和持续时间。

   * 核心定义：创伤是发生在你身上的事，而不是你是谁。 人们常常将创伤内化为身份认同（“我不好”、“我是个问题”）。需要区分“发生在我身上的事”和“我是谁”。

2. 行为是未解决创伤的表现:

   * 功能失调的行为（如无法维持工作/关系、酗酒、过度运动）是未解决创伤的体现。人们通常意识不到这一点。

   * 需要审视自己的行为，将其视为一种适应机制，是试图推开未解决创伤的方式。

3. 文化背景与个体差异:

   * 创伤的影响因人而异，与个人感知和**性情（Temperament）**有关。有些人天生敏感，受欺凌影响巨大；有些人则能较好地应对。

   * 主持人提到在韩国文化中被老师/家长体罚被视为常态的经历。Dr. Anderson指出，虽然文化背景可能不将此定义为创伤，但这并不意味着它没有造成创伤，尤其是对敏感个体。文化正常化可能导致个体困惑（“为什么别人没事，我就有问题？”）。

   * 他引用了住院部青少年研究的例子：来自混乱富裕家庭的孩子和来自纽约贫民区帮派的孩子都有创伤史，但帮派背景的孩子PTSD症状反而较轻，因为暴力在他们的文化中被“正常化”了，他们有社群支持。这说明文化背景显著影响对创伤的反应。

4. 压抑并非良策:

   * 试图变得“坚强”、建立“硬壳”来压抑创伤是不可取的。压抑是否认现实，最终会导致问题（功能失调的行为模式）。

   * 重要的是认识自己（敏感或不敏感），并面对和疗愈创伤，而不是压抑。压抑也许能暂时奏效（他自己压抑了32年），但问题终将以其他形式浮现。

5. 疗愈的可能性与益处:

   * 疗愈是可能的。 可以访问、释放、转化创伤。

   * 他认为自己看起来比实际年龄年轻，很大程度上是因为持续进行创伤疗愈，不背负沉重的心理包袱。不压抑痛苦和创伤，让人感觉更年轻、更有活力。

   * 疗愈是一个持续的过程（“释放创伤，然后提升”），每个人都可以做到。

识别未解决的创伤

• 行为是窗口: 由于大脑有压抑和解离的能力，人们可能意识不到自己未解决的创伤。因此，观察自己的行为模式是关键。
• 反思生活状态: 你的生活是否真实？是否存在谎言、欺骗？人际关系是否健康有爱？工作是否令人满意、符合人生目标？如果答案是否定的，这些挣扎就是未解决创伤的信号。
• 理解行为的“积极意图”: 功能失调的行为（如酗酒、自杀意念、抑郁）实际上是在试图“帮助”你，通常是为了保护你免受更深层痛苦的侵袭。例如，酗酒可能是为了逃避孤独感；自杀意念可能是痛苦到极点时的最后“退出策略”。
• 带着好奇心审视行为: 理解行为试图压抑和保护的是什么，是通往根源的途径。例如，“喝酒是为了不感受孤独” -&gt; “也许有其他方式应对孤独”。
• 难以接受爱与赞美: 以主持人（代指朋友“Ben”）难以接受赞美、总将其归结为“谦虚”为例，Dr. Anderson将其与可能的童年创伤联系起来（如被打骂导致内化了“我不好/有错”的信念）。这种内在信念与外部的爱/赞美不匹配，导致无法接受。

羞耻 (Shame) vs. 内疚 (Guilt)

• 羞耻: “我是坏的”。是一种身份认同，源于将他人的行为责任内化（尤其是儿童时期）。羞耻是一种创伤性伤口。
• 内疚: “我做了坏事，我感觉不好”。是对自己错误行为的感受。内疚是一种有助于社交的情感，能激发改变（前提是行为确实是错误的）。
• 过度内疚: 有时人们过度内疚（如打喷嚏也道歉），这可能是一种防御机制，因为指责他人（如父母）带来的痛苦更大，所以选择自己承担一切责任，即使不是自己的错。

未解决创伤对人际关系的影响

1. 吸引力即“创伤救赎”:

   * 我们常常被那些熟悉（能唤起我们早期关系模式）的人吸引，潜意识中希望他们能帮助我们疗愈过去的创伤（“你将成为我理想中的父亲/母亲”）。

   * 这是一种无意识的过程，导致我们反复陷入相似的关系模式（“冲洗再重复”）。

2. 吸引相似创伤，相反适应:

   * 我们倾向于吸引那些核心创伤相似，但应对创伤的方式（适应机制）相反的人。

   * 例子：Dr. Anderson（外向，渴望被爱）和他丈夫（内向，有自己的创伤史）。外向者可能被内向者的沉稳吸引（寻求平衡），内向者可能被外向者的活力吸引（希望走出舒适区），但两人可能都有相似的“不值得被爱”的核心创伤。

   * 我们吸引我们所“不是”的特质来寻求平衡，但底层往往是相似的未解决议题。

3. 抱怨与责任:

   * 人们常常抱怨伴侣的那些当初吸引自己的特质，因为这种吸引很大程度上是无意识的创伤驱动。

   * 需要为自己的选择负责，而不是怨恨对方“就是那样”。

4. 疗愈后的吸引力变化:

   * 当Dr. Anderson疗愈到一定程度后，他遇到了现任丈夫。他不再试图通过这段关系疗愈创伤，吸引力模式发生了变化，他被一个与以往模式不同的人吸引。

5. 不切实际的期望:

   * 试图让伴侣扮演从未得到的父母角色，会给关系带来不切实际的期望，导致怨恨和关系破裂。伴侣不是用来疗愈你童年创伤的。

6. 吸引“得不到”的人:

   * 如果童年有被忽视的经历（感觉不被需要/不被爱），可能会反复被那些对自己不感兴趣的人吸引，潜意识里希望“这次会不一样”，试图疗愈被忽视的创伤。

7. “修复者”情结:

   * 女性（或男性）被“坏男孩/女孩”吸引，并抱有“我可以修复他/她”的幻想，这通常源于童年时期试图通过照顾/修复父母来获得爱的模式（照顾者适应）。这与自身的未解决创伤有关。许多治疗师也有强烈的照顾者部分。

8. 一方疗愈，关系失衡:

   * 当关系中的一方开始接受治疗、成长和改变时，原有的平衡被打破。另一方要么随之成长，要么关系可能无法维系。

   * 许多人在一方寻求治疗后最终离婚，因为动态改变了，旧模式不再适用。

   * Dr. Anderson分享了他和他丈夫的经历：随着孩子长大，他们角色失衡，通过沟通和各自的治疗，丈夫也在成长，关系得以维系和发展。但并非所有关系都能如此。

创伤疗愈的途径与解决方案

1. 意识是第一步，但不是全部: 认识到问题是开始，之后需要“做功课”。
2. 疗愈过程的核心要素:

   * 感谢创伤反应: 认识到适应行为（即使是功能失调的）最初是为了保护自己。

   * 连接内在智慧/“自体能量”（Self Energy）: 找回被创伤剥夺的直觉和内在力量。

   * 见证（Witnessing）: 让承载创伤的部分有机会讲述它的故事。

   * 矫正性体验（Corrective Experience）: 让创伤部分体验到在创伤事件中缺失的爱、看见或价值感。

   * 释放（Release）: 在完成上述步骤后，创伤能量才可能被释放。

   * 转化（Transformation）: 释放后，可以收回力量，以不同的方式生活。

3. 整合不同疗法: Dr. Anderson强调需要整合心理治疗（回溯过去）、神经科学（理解机制）和教练技术（聚焦未来），以实现真正的疗愈。
4. 疗愈的可及性:

   * 他正在开发一个旨在帮助人们在心理治疗之外进行创伤疗愈的强化项目，因为治疗资源有限且昂贵。

   * 他成立了“创伤知情媒体”（Trauma Informed Media）制作公司，希望通过讲故事（如引用《熊家餐馆》、《足球教练》、《人生切割术》、《怪奇物语》等影视剧为例，它们虽未明说，但深刻探讨了创伤）的方式，以非创伤化、易于理解和共情的方式，向公众普及创伤知识。

关于AI心理治疗的看法

• 双刃剑: 既有潜力（提供可及性、可能有好的开发者），也有风险（缺乏监管、可能被不良开发者利用、信息不准确）。
• 辨别力的重要性: 当前社会（尤其是年轻人）缺乏辨别网络信息真伪的能力。对于AI治疗，用户需要有能力判断其内容和方法的准确性与安全性。错误的创伤处理方式可能导致二次创伤。
• 社会经济差异: 资源较多的人可能从中受益，资源较少的人可能更容易受到劣质AI服务的伤害。
• 需要负责任的开发者: Dr. Anderson强调由真正懂创伤的专家来开发相关工具的重要性。

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00:00

Hey everyone, Dr. Josh Axe here. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're probably someone who's deeply interested in elevating your health, right? Yeah, I think so if you're listening to this podcast. Well, if there's anything I've learned over the past few decades of helping patients and other people heal and transform their health, it's this. If you truly want to heal and experience a breakthrough, it happens at the intersection of natural health, holistic medicine, personal growth, and even psychology. And that's exactly what I dive into on the

00:28

Dr. Josh Axe Show. On my show, I give practical tips and insights on how to grow in body, mind, and spirit and overcome conditions like hypothyroidism. I teach principles like how to become a better methylator, improve gut health,

00:43

experience a breakthrough in autoimmune disease, how to detoxify your body, and how to heal using food as medicine, but also mindset medicine. Whether you're looking for a mindset breakthrough, a spiritual breakthrough, or a health breakthrough, you're not gonna wanna miss the next episode of the Dr. Josh Axe Show. You can find it on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube. Go to those channels now and subscribe today.

01:10

Welcome to the Ancient Health Podcast, where East meets West in the world of medicine. I'm Dr. Chris Motley, and here we explore how modern Western science and traditional Eastern wisdom come together to unlock the body's full healing potential. Each week, we'll dive into powerful tools, techniques, and approaches from both sides of the world to help you optimize your health and live with vitality. Let's bridge the gap between ancient practices and cutting-edge medicine. Let's get started.

01:39

Hello friends, welcome to the Ancient Health Podcast where East meets West. I'm your host Dr. Chris Motley and we're going to talk about trauma, fascia or fascia, however you want to say it, and self-regulation. So we're going to make some references to an incredible book called The Body Keeps the Score and I hope one day I can interview this author. It's by Bessel or Bessel van der Kolk and it's so good because it talks about trauma that's stored in the body.

02:09

and how this trauma could lead to fight or flight, and when you can use therapies and techniques such as EMDR, somatic therapies, exercises, and breath work that can help you to release the trauma. So we're going to go through a few examples from the book, but we're also going to talk about fascia as a sensory organ, how it actually is an organ system, and it should not be neglected.

02:40

And we're going to talk about the difference between muscle memory and fascial memory. And I know we're going to be a little bit more intricate, but for you guys listening out there, I want you to see how amazing your body is and how your body can actually receive information not only through the eyes, ears, nose, through the mouth, but

03:04

but also through the fascial system that which is incredible there's an old book that i have called anatomy trains and anatomy trains is a book that shows

03:14

how fascia or fascia, I'm going to keep intertwining them, tomato, tomato, and how it actually intertwines throughout your skin. And if you took your muscles away, your skin away, you took your arteries, your veins, your nerves, your ligaments, and all you did was leave the fascia, you would have almost a complete representation of yourself. You could recognize it was you.

03:42

So we're going to dive into this. We're going to talk about some neurofascial pathways, and hopefully I can cover this all within this one podcast. But I've got some notes here written down.

03:52

And I love going through notes because it keeps me on track, keeps me from diverting too much. Let's talk about first the book. I want you guys to pick up this book called The Body Keeps the Score. It does an amazing job talking about the fascial system and how the fascia is able to hold on to trauma. I really enjoy it because in my practice, it's been over 20 years, I got into doing

04:21

And emotion therapy, and you may have heard my story, almost kind of like by accident. And it happened on a young patient of mine. He had had an issue. Let's go fast forward. He had an issue with his ear and he fell out of a tree and injured his neck. All I'm going to say is when I was doing my scans with frequency therapies, biofeedback examination, Chinese medicine techniques, I found out there had to be an emotion or psychological effect.

04:52

physiological emotional connection that was keeping that injury in place associated with bacteria and parasites. When we worked on the old emotion that was trapped in his body that came from his parents, his ear and his neck healed.

05:08

Which is really interesting to me because I'm not the guy that goes, oh, I knew all this and I found it out. No, no, no, no, no, no. If you're hearing me and you can see my face, I'm telling you, I was like, I don't know about this. I know I can come on the camera and be a bit more exuberant. But if you guys sort of knew me, I'm a little bit quiet at times. If I see you out in public, I'm giving you a hug. I'm a hugger. But I can be a little quiet. But when I see things like this, I was really, really astounded.

05:37

So I dove into techniques even further, like NET, neuroemotional technique, EFT, tapping. Because I want us to see that your body basically will hold memory of a trauma just like you would hold the memory of a bad sprained ankle. That changes it, doesn't it? Hear that Nashville coming out? Doesn't it? If you have a sprained ankle…

06:06

Your brain makes a recording of the sprained ankle and tells the muscles around your ankles, your knee, your thigh, and your hips to accommodate for that injury. So it'd say, Chris, don't step on that ankle in this manner because you're going to prevent it from healing. That makes sense. What happens when you have an emotion in your brain? Your body is told by the brain to make all these different contortions in your fascial system to accommodate and take pressure off your body

06:37

your organs, your meridian system in such a way that you're trying to accommodate and heal the emotions that up in the traumatic area. Now, granted, you could have trauma not only in your brain, but you could have trauma in the body, physical, sexual, mental, verbal abuse that is being basically accommodated to, adapted to,

07:07

So if you had somebody verbally abusing you all your life and you heard this person's voice, your brain makes pathways to help you handle the voice, the sound, the intonation of that person. And anytime you hear somebody else talk like that, what do you do? I don't like that person's voice, that new person's voice. I don't like the way that sounds. So your body will react. Your ears will want to close up.

07:39

Your neck will tighten up. You will actually round your shoulders so you can get into a protective mode. Does that sound like you? Sounds like that to me when I was going through that, even in school. I didn't have horrible verbal abuse, but I remember people's voices that I felt that were not the right people to be around. And I remember having those types of reactions. So I get adamant about it because I want you never to doubt whenever like

08:10

you have some form of physical response to an emotional trauma, your body physiologically will change. And I know all of you know that. But some people could not believe that your gums could hurt. Why do my teeth hurt when I'm around this person? Because you know what? I'm not going to go into the details of it. But if you had some form of traumatic event that happened to you that concerned you eating something,

08:46

with somebody. Would that affect your teeth? It sure would. So don't doubt yourself. Investigate. And this is what we're going to do today. I think I just spent a lot of time on that, but I wanted you guys to get the reality of it. The author was a psychiatrist to the Vietnam veterans in the 70s. So one of the veterans he treated would dive to the ground when he heard a noise that resembled something that happened in the war.

09:16

Also, I just had a friend who went to Colorado to get this amazing somatic therapy done. And I don't know every angle of it, but this is a really important story he told me. He said he was in the clinician's room when he was trying to work with this therapist. And happenstance, one of the lights in the office had the same light and color as

09:45

What the veteran experienced during a bombing in Vietnam and my friend said that that guy broke down right there in the clinic like literally was shuddering because his body Sensorial his sensory input was like that's the same light that happened when my friends got killed And that saddens my heart and he responded why that's the only way his body knew how to respond same effect, right? so

10:15

There's lights that could cause it. There's noises. And this particular person, when he found out that he fell to the ground, the doctor, Van der Kolk, he said, I know that there's trauma trapped in the body and it's disrupting the flow of energy and the flow of neurology and the nerves. And you know what's really amazing is that chi, if we study, you hear me talk about it before, that electrical signals of chi are

10:42

are traveling through, if you can watch me with my little doll, I always have my Chinese medicine doll. I need to name my doll, I don't know. But anyway, through the fascia, through the connective tissue, there are these small, tiny tubes, like little garden hoses. Can you imagine itty-bitty garden hoses that are running through your fascial system, and they're just flowing chi all day. And if you got

11:09

Injured in a particular area, you have trauma stored in, let's say, your shoulder. Does that water hose or that little garden hose get kinked up? Yes. And that's where the injuries start. That energy that the fascia is connected to the basically insular…

11:31

The insular cortex and the limbic system. Now, I know the limbic system. I study it. I love it. I'm a nerd that way. But one of the things about the insular cortex and the limbic system is that they're all connected to the internal brain, which is connected to the higher mind, but it helps you process your emotions.

11:51

And so the fascia, literally, I want you guys to know this. If you look at a representation of the cells in your body, fascia has these small tendrils, like little vines that grow out of the fascia where the chi and the meridians are. These little tubes, these little garden hose are meridians. And those little tendrils can reach into the deep portions of your cells. And they've been shown that these tendrils connect to your DNA.

12:21

So your fascia has these like little vines that go into your cells, go all the way into your DNA. So your fascia is connected to your DNA. So it may be somebody injuring you on the shoulder, but your DNA records it. Do you guys follow me? So your emotions are traveling basically through this same system. Now, if you have this fascia connecting into the internal cells and you have a certain type of trauma…

12:58

In that area, in the related area, the fascia can get very tight. It can get hardened. It can create dysregulation. It can cause inflammation. It can cause chronic pain. Our emotions, yes, are connected to the fascia. The fascia is connected to the DNA. So whatever's happening to you emotionally is going through your physiology and going to show itself structurally. That's what I'm saying. My brother, not saying I like my brother, love my brother.

13:29

But he used to box and he used to take me to the boxing gym with him. And my brother would always hit me like he just that's what he did. He was just, you know, he's a bigger brother. He wasn't a bad guy. He just like he would just like always want to box with me. And if you guys know me, I'm taller and thinner. I don't really want to get hit a lot. You know, I don't I don't have a lot of I don't have a lot of meat on my bones. OK, but he'd always hit and I got tougher and I could hit back. But I noticed that when my brother was around, I would flinch. I would tighten up like literally I would crawl on. Why did I do that?

14:05

Because my mind, my brain, the higher mind in my brain picked up that what if he tries to hit me? It was stored in my fascia. My fascia went to my DNA. My DNA said there's a habit coming up. There is a program running that he's going to hit me. And so my DNA reacts because it was in the fascial system. I hope that makes sense. It's gotten so used to being hit, the fascia, the connective tissue. And those little fines went into my cells and told my cells, hey, anytime your brother's around, he's going to hit you.

14:37

So my cells listen, and then that tells my muscles and everything else to do what? Adapt. Contract. Get ready. Contract up. Now, I know I get nerded out about it, but I love that because I'm telling you this. What happens if you're around people at your school or people in your life that are bullies? Maybe not just physical abuse, maybe verbal abuse, or maybe you had a parent that was verbally abusive, or you were raised in a very tough home-life relationship. I just want you to know, whether it's physical abuse,

15:12

Or verbal. If you hear something, you see something, you get hit. Unfortunately. I'm saying this with all seriousness. It's traveling through your fascial system. And your fascial system is about communication. And it's going deep into those cells. And those cells are changing. This is why it's crazy. Because what happens is…

15:37

Your DNA has to contort and change itself to handle the stress and the trauma, which means could it change your genetic load? Could it change your genetic expression? And from the popular studies and what we've seen through psychology and psychiatry, the answer is yes. So what you experience in your trauma, they say, can change your genetic expression. It can literally change the shape.

16:10

and the length of your chromosomes. That's very tough for me to take because that means that if you've suffered from a trauma all your life, think of how much your chromosomes had to adapt.

16:25

That length of time. And now it's time for healing. And now it's time for you to actually say, no, I got to stop this part and start living this part. And that sounds kind of corny, but I want you guys that are listening to say, like, give yourself plenty of grace to change because that's a long time to adapt to something that happened for that length of time. If you think of fascia, if it encodes emotional energetic imprints, remember it's serving as basically a storage bay. It's like a hard drive.

16:52

It's like a hard drive hooked up to your computer or an external hard drive. And it's recording all this information. And the hardest part is if it's in the memory bank, that author explains that if it's in an external hard drive, like you're storing it away and you don't clean it out, it's always going to pull from your battery power. I hope that makes sense, right? It's like it's always going to be there pulling on your energy. So that's why it'd be so important to,

17:27

That if you did deep body work or if you did qigong or tai chi or boxing or some type of movement. And have you ever had a deep emotional release when you've done some kind of exercise or some type of therapy? I've had individuals that have literally said that they've done a certain type of somatic reflex movement or a dance where they literally were in the same positions or movements of when a trauma happened and they had this huge emotional response.

18:02

It's because the fascia stored the memory of that issue. And when you start to move and unwind, they call it fascial unwind. You guys heard that? Like you unwind your spine. What's it doing? It's stretching the fascia. Picture that with me. Stretching it, untight, untwisting it. Have you ever seen saran wrap when you twist it really tight and it gets crinkled up? That's what happens to your fascia. Exactly. And fascia is not some just stiff sheath. It can be in the injury site. It can be very stiff and hardened, but you got to think of it as very malleable fascia.

18:32

liquefied proteins and sugars that act like a spider web that are always contorting and changing shape. So you stretch it and you move it and all that electricity that's stuck in that area starts to get freed up and the electrical signals start flowing through the injury site after you do your movements.

18:48

You start doing deep body work, that electricity is flowing through it, allowing the energy to disperse everywhere it needs to go. And the crazy thing is, and then it will start going into the DNA. Your DNA has an exit ramp for you to unload all that stored energy. And then people go, I remember what happened when I was five. And the simple fact is, is that we are all masters of adaptation.

19:14

We really are. We're masters of adaptation and we've learned how to adapt so well because it's the only way we can self-regulate. And the thing that I get concerned about with my patients is that where a person stores their trauma, whether it be in your shoulder, in your hips, or in a particular organ, it's A, either going to drain your battery pack of essential energy or

19:48

slowly without you knowing it or recognizing it, no fault of your own, or B, it's going to turn into an eventual physical manifestation of a problem within that organ or within that joint. So I want you to make sure that you take note because if, for instance, I'll use myself as an example. If I haven't always have an injury on my left shoulder every time I get stressed, literally it gets weak, my left shoulder. Why?

20:16

I had a partial dislocation, but what it is is my gallbladder. My gallbladder meridian runs, the little pathway runs right through my neck down to the shoulder. Anytime I feel overwhelmed or I have too many things going on at one time with too many directions, that's an emotion of the gallbladder. My gallbladder gets fired up and it gets frustrated. And for some reason, it locks up into my left shoulder. I believe it has to do with the physiological action of the shoulder. The fascia is meant to do what? Hold things up, push things out.

20:48

That's the shoulder. And if I feel that I get overwhelmed, it may feel like I have too much weight on my shoulders. Does that make sense? And that's how I feel when I broke it down. That's exactly how I feel. I literally feel like I have too much weight on my shoulders. And I know out there you guys are like, yes, that's exactly what happens to me. My knee hurts. Why? Because you may be around people who are not flexible or bendable. Or you may feel like you can't propel yourself forward. You feel stuck. You can't walk away.

21:23

There's some truth to it. Now, one thing I really thought was interesting too, he's talking about the muscle memory and the fascial memory. He's talking about the fascial communicates directly with your vagus nerve. And I want you guys to see that. Vagus nerve stimulation, I should have brought mine in from the car, but I have one called a CES Ultra. Maybe, Christy, if we could put that on the links. It's called a CES Ultra. But CES Ultra has to do with

21:48

You've seen these vagal nerve stimulators. You can get them on Amazon. But you have this vagus nerve 10 or cranial nerve 10. And that vagus nerve, you guys can imagine, exits your neck. And I don't want to get too fancy with all the terminology. But it comes down. And basically, in a nutshell, it goes down through your neck. And it will connect to your heart, your lungs, your abdomen. It connects to your kidneys. It connects to almost every single organ, almost. But what it's doing is it's giving you a little volume level. And it's saying, okay, these organs need to – I want you to stay relaxed. You need to stay –

22:17

in the parasympathetic space stay relaxed you know rest and eat and relax but it's basically like you when you eat and you relax or when you go to sleep or you start to rest you engage your parasympathetics to stay relaxed but when you go into trauma you go into a sympathetic so you have the sympathetic nervous system now your trauma is going to dysregulate your parasympathetic so think about parachute you're on a parachute and you're just flowing

22:48

If you're in sympathetic mode, it means you're feeling everything. I sympathize with everything I'm feeling. There's too much going on. So you're in that sympathetic. Oh, I got to get this done tomorrow. I got to do this in the morning. What if I don't make enough money? You see how fast I'm talking, which happens to your brain, right? So your sympathetic nervous system gets overwhelmed because we don't mean to. We turn down the volume of our parasympathetic, our relaxation, and then we increase the volume of our sympathetic.

23:18

decrease, higher. Now, the crazy thing is, is that when we increase sympathetic, we go into hypervigilance and disassociation. We either get too weary and too skittish, or we get so overwhelmed in our nervous system that our body has to disassociate and just relax, not relax, release all the things that cause tension. And then we almost become robotic. And so whenever you have trauma built up in a system, as we just talked about,

23:53

Those are the things that can happen on a much grander scale simply because your trauma is held in the whole body, of course, but heavily within your fascial system. Now, you want to use all the qigong, all the tai chi, all the tapping, all the techniques we're about to talk about, and herbs to help you unwind the knots in the fascial system. So you have to get all the knots out of the system so that the qi can flow through it.

24:29

And that chi is moving towards the organs. It's running through your muscles. And one of the things I really love is that since it's going down to your DNA, it's about communicating. Your body will learn how to stay interconnected and communicate with itself. And that's the key because if you disassociate and you start to get too overwhelmed, organs will start to get very, very tight and they'll start operating on their own instead of acting as a community. You can heal. You can get some of the trauma out.

24:54

There's a few acupuncture points that you guys can look into which I really really love because I use them pretty much every day. On the palm side of your hand, right on where the palm meets the wrist. Now this is on the side of the hand that is going up towards your pinky. Okay? So if you can see me on camera, a heart seven.

25:20

is right here, right underneath this palm area right there. That's heart seven. And now if you take your thumb and you go on that knobby bone right here, like go down from your pinky, go down the pinky, go down to the palm, right underneath the palm where the palm starts to meet the wrist, you start to rub into that area and that area right there is called a heart seven. Heart seven. If you go a little bit

25:43

up into the wrist right in the middle of the wrist on the palmer side the palm side right in the middle of the wrist underneath the palm is called pericardium six so you have heart seven pericardium six and liver three which is an acupuncture point between your big toe and your second toe right in the web these three points have been shown to help release fascial tension and the pericardium in the heart helps relax the heart it brings balance to the heart area

26:14

The liver three helps the liver regulate, which is responsible for fascia and ligaments and tendons. The liver is responsible for that. So if you go down and reach between your big toe and your second toe and it's really tender, you know your liver is pretty tired. So those three are amazing points to use acupressure on or tap. Now, when you are rubbing these points, do them two to three times a day.

26:48

30 to 40 seconds at a time, maybe a minute, and you do them on both sides. And there is a book called Feelings Buried Alive Never Die. I believe it's by Carol Truman. I read it back in school. It's an amazing book. She gives you great messages to talk and speak over your life. But when you are rubbing those points, if you know something is hurting you or burdening you,

27:22

She teaches that you can say things of even though I have the feelings of resentment and anger and frustration towards such and such because they did this to me. You don't have to say it all out loud, but just have this memory. I completely love, respect, and cherish myself, and I have the ability to heal. And what you're doing is when you're starting to open up that chi flow in the fascial system and you're getting the heart to feel a little bit more encouraged, a little bit more warmth, you're sending a frequency of

27:55

a vibration of healing throughout your fascial system. And it's just going through the system. And literally when you show love to yourself, when you start to have those feelings, you'll start to unwind even deeper. So you have to piss in the telephone call out of healing energy, frequency, and taking the time to do the tapping. And I love EFT tapping. So if you want to know more about that, we're going to have that in show notes, but it's called EFT, emotional freedom technique.

28:29

And you've seen this on some of my posts. But Dr. Mercola has a really good site. But there's really ones like emotionalemofree.com. Really great teachers. So when you start to use these points, you can use good affirmations. But again, please never neglect stretching your fascia. Doing qigong, tai chi, dance, certain yoga moves or formats, certain types of stretches. I love…

29:03

good lymph therapist along with fascial stretching there's some fascial deep workers it's not to me like get the deepest massage ever to me it's getting the fascia moved and the correct posture there are some healers out there that can put their hands on you and you'll feel where all the fascia is congealed and tightened

29:22

and they can move it. This is the gentlest movement. I have a friend of mine. She'd probably get mad at me if I… She's so busy, she can't take any more people. But here in Franklin, she would put her hands on me, and this is the exact truth. I would literally lay on her table, guys, and I don't ever fall asleep during a session, usually. And she would just be talking with me and just doing these light motions. She was strong, don't get me wrong. But she would move my neck, and she could feel the tension, and she would unwind it. And literally, I'd fall asleep, and I'd wake myself up snoring because I was on the table. And I'd be like…

29:51

She goes, oh yeah, you were asleep for 45 minutes. On the average when I went and got it. And I never sleep. Why? Because she got the cheetah flow through the fascial system just by unwinding my neck, which affected the rest of my body. So if you find a good fascial massage therapist or a fascial worker, you need to stick with them. Here are a few herbs that I wrote down. Okay? We want to do remania. That's R-E-H-M-A-N-N-I-A. Remania. Licorice root and schisandra. So…

30:30

We have Ramania, licorice root, and schisandra. Now, schisandra is known to like actually enhance and give clarity to emotional traumas. And then Ramania really helps nourish the yin aspect of your blood, which basically when you have yin energy and it's dysregulated, you don't feel safe.

30:52

So, Ramania helps your Yin, that warm feeling of like, you know, cuddling. I feel like somebody's giving me a hug. I feel like somebody's loving on me. That's Yin. You need that nourish, Ramania. And licorice root kind of harmonizes everything. It actually causes all other herbs to like work together. It's like the middleman. That's what licorice root is. Like, hey, dude, come on, hang out with my other friend here. And that's what it does. And I love Schisandra because it also cleans out the liver.

31:21

Now, you don't have to use all three of these, but I think these are very good adaptogenic herbs, and I also want you to remember that they are really good adaptogenic mushrooms. I love lion's mane. I like using reishi. They're very good with emotional upset, especially within the kidneys. Lion's mane or reishi. R-E-I-S-H-I.

31:44

So I know there's a lot of information, guys. I've been yapping your ear off, but I wanted you guys to know the effect and the efficacy of fascial work. There's a really good friend of mine, Stop Chasing Pain, at Stop Chasing Pain. Dr. Perry, he's like one of, he's like a mentor. He's so cool.

32:02

Just strong big dude, but he gives great videos. But he has it called the big six and tells you how to like release the lymph flow, which then helps release the fascia that helps the whole body relax. You'll be amazed about what your body will express and what your brain and mind will bring up to remembrance when you give your body the permission to let it go. So you have to unwind it to give it permission. Just think about it this way.

32:36

If I took the same walkway, the same path, let's say I walked to my school every single day, I ate the same meal, I waved at the same neighbor every single time I walked by there, and you just said, well, you know, one day I'm going to take a different route. I'm going to go this way. But you kept taking the same route every day. Would your body believe you? I don't think it would.

33:12

But if you just force yourself to take a right instead of left and do a different path, you retrain your brain to create that neural network. We call that neuroplasticity. I know you guys have heard of that before. So when you start doing movements and stretches and stuff, you're creating new networks of nerves. And if you create new networks of nerves and you have different pathways, you're wanting to go down a new path. It sounds corny, but you're going down a new path. Your body will believe you.

33:44

It's like saying, I actually am doing this. He's actually, yeah, I believe him now. I believe now he's actually doing something different. It does take hard work, but you can make the changes. I know I've had to make changes. I had to make changes, huge changes. And I'm going to tell you personally, I've had to make big changes the last three months. And if you know me, I'm stubborn like a mule. I do not like to change. I like, you just leave me alone and I'll do my own thing. Okay, guys, I hope you like this kind of information. And if you did, please let me know.

34:13

Send me some comments on the comment section. We'll have the link to the book, and it may be up in my shop, my store online. So I'm going to make sure my producer, we have that book up on that. We'll put the link down there so you can purchase it. It's a really great read, and it's going to give you insight to things you've known. This is what I'm saying. You will look at it and go, I knew that had given me a problem.

34:36

It's really cool. All right. Love y'all. And so if you like and subscribe, if you know somebody else that has trapped emotions in their fascia, they have chronic body pain because of their emotions. I want you to send this to them. I want you to check out at Stop Chasing Pain. And guys, hit the bell. So every time a new podcast comes up, you get an indicator, an indicator, a little bell ring.

34:55

And the other thing is like we like to take these types of podcasts and put them onto the live Q&amp;A for the membership. I do a live Q&amp;A. Usually I'm doing every Wednesday night, but I'm saying weekly we have it. I rarely miss a week, but what I love to do is to be able to talk with you. It's about community. It's about us talking face-to-face. So I have the opportunity like you hear this and you jump on the membership, you join the membership, you can go, hey, I get to talk to Dr. Motley about it. Literally, we just talk face-to-face, all of us in this big community, and there's like-minded, lovely people.

35:22

All right, guys. Until the next time, I hope you have a blessed day. And from all of us here at Ancient Health Podcast, enjoy it.

35:28

Before we wrap up, please remember that the information shared in this podcast is for educational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice. No doctor patient relationship is formed through this podcast and the use of information here or materials linked from this podcast is at your own risk. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

35:55

Always consult with your health care provider before making any changes to your health regimen and do not disregard or delay seeking medical advice for any condition you may have. Our content may include sponsorship and affiliate links to which we earn a small commission on sales made through those links.

36:14

Thank you for joining us today on the Ancient Health Podcast. We hope you've gained valuable insights into the harmony between Eastern and Western medicine. If you've enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe, share, and leave us a review.

36:26

Remember, true health is about balance, mind, body, and spirit. So stay tuned for more episodes where we continue to explore how ancient wisdom and modern science can work together to help you thrive. Here's to your health, balance, and well-being. I'm Dr. Chris Motley, and I look forward to our next episode together.

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Edit:2025.05.11

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